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Julius Caesar's name is spelled with J both in Latin and in English. So is Julia the Elder. There are plenty of examples of Julia in English, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia

I think this applies to Jurij (Yurij) and other names that begins with Ju as well.

Why is Y often used when J is a very established spelling, which is used in e.g., German and Scandinavian languages?

d-b
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    Can you think of any English word where the letter J is pronounced like the letter Y? – tchrist Dec 05 '22 at 13:42
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    Actually, Julius/Julia originally began with I in Latin; the distinction between the consonant J and the vowel I only evolved later. – Kate Bunting Dec 05 '22 at 14:09
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    @tchrist I struggled for a good few minutes trying to think of such a word, and then hallelujah, I found one! – Tanner Swett Dec 05 '22 at 19:03
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    Consider why transliterating with ‘j’ is used in other Germanic languages, noting that English has a French ‘j’, not a Germanic one. – Austin Hemmelgarn Dec 05 '22 at 22:49
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    @tchrist: Another one is fjord. (Of course, that's because English adopted the Norwegian spelling as-is.) – Dan Dec 05 '22 at 23:45
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    @AustinHemmelgarn: English normally pronounces j as /dʒ/, which is not quite the same as the French /ʒ/. Still, the fact that German pronounces j as /j/ is irrelevant, as is the fact that Spanish pronounces j as /x/~/h/, and Mandarin Pinyin pronounces it as /tɕ/. – Dan Dec 06 '22 at 00:38
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    @Dan The English pronunciation has diverged from the French, but it’s still a result of Old French influence on Old English. My intended point though was that ‘’normal’ English pronunciation of ‘ju’ differs drastically from pretty much any rendering of ‘ю’ irrespective of language, while the ‘normal’ pronunciation of ‘ju’ in most other Germanic languages is relatively close to many (word initial) pronunciations of ‘ю’. – Austin Hemmelgarn Dec 06 '22 at 01:33
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    FWIW, the scientific transliteration of the Russian Cyrillic does use "Julija" because the intended audience knows how that is supposed to sound. The same does the normal transcription from Russian and Ukrainian to Czech (Julija Tymošenko) for the same reasons. – Vladimir F Героям слава Dec 06 '22 at 10:22
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    It's funny how the whole confusion stems from the fact that when the name Iulius arrived in England via France they took the spelling and changed the pronunciation, while now that it is arriving via Russia they are taking the pronunciation but changing the spelling. – bracco23 Dec 06 '22 at 10:49
  • @tchrist the male name Jan, though whether you'd count a proper noun is debatable. It's also pretty rare (in the UK, except in recent descendents of immigrants), but the example that sprang to mind spoke in RP. Most other examples are loaned – Chris H Dec 06 '22 at 13:11
  • While we're on it, why do Russians say 'Gandel' rather than 'Handel'? – Leon Conrad Dec 06 '22 at 17:22
  • @tchrist Yugoslavia used to be spelled with a 'J'. There was once a Benny Hill skit where an ignorant 'newsreader' (Hill) stumbled over the word originally pronouncing it 'jug of saliva'. – mcalex Dec 07 '22 at 08:41
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    @LeonConrad it's a case of fossilized spelling. At the time it was adopted Г could be G or soft G(like Dutch soft G if you've heard it, but transliterated as H in English) and German H sounded like a soft G to Russians. Soft G disappeared from most Russian dialects(and hard G from Ukranian). So the period pronunciation would have been G'(sounds like H to English speakers)andel. – Eugene Dec 07 '22 at 18:53
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    FWIW Russian passport office transcribes the name as ‘Iuliia’, so Yulia is not your worst option. – Roman Shapovalov Dec 08 '22 at 12:02
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    @RomanShapovalov Well, since I and J wasn't separate letters in Rome that spelling makes much more sense than using Y. – d-b Dec 09 '22 at 10:15
  • @d-b OK, but that double ‘i’ – Roman Shapovalov Dec 09 '22 at 12:30
  • @RomanShapovalov Look at the comment about scientific translation above, they use "Julija". – d-b Dec 09 '22 at 13:02
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    @RomanShapovalov: Because it's a letter-by-letter transliteration of и → i and я → ia. – Dan Dec 09 '22 at 23:43

4 Answers4

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English speakers typically pronounce "Julius Caesar" and "Julia" with the sound /d͡ʒ/, like in the English word "jam".

It's true that in various European languages, including German and Scandinavian languages, J is an established spelling for the sound /j/ (like in the English word year or the German word Jahr). And English speakers may use that spelling and pronunciation in words or names that are spelled that way in the original language, such as someone named Johann in German or Jan in Swedish.

But that convention, although not completely unfamiliar to English speakers, is not the most common interpretation that English speakers tend to give to the letter J.

The convention of representing the sound /j/ as "y" is more familiar to English speakers. Since we are changing the spelling anyway when we transliterate from the Cyrillic alphabet, there's a tendency to use the option that makes it easier for English speakers to read the name with the right pronunciation. What German and Scandinavian languages do doesn't have much relevance in that context.

In fact, there are many ways to romanize Cyrillic and you could see /j/ represented as J or even I in some systems rather than Y. Y is just a popular way of doing it.

herisson
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There are basically three ways to deal with foreign names in English text.

  1. Preserve the original spelling of the name.
    • If the name is originally written in the Latin alphabet, this can be done directly.
    • If the name is originally in a different script, the equivalent is to use a transliteration convention that preserves orthographical distinctions present in the source language. For example, it's common to use ك → k and ق → q in names of Arabic origin, even though English speakers will pronounce both as /k/.
  2. Preserve the original pronunciation of the name (to the extent allowed by English phonology).
  3. Translate the name into an English language cognate. For example, Spanish Juan → John, German Wilhelm → William, and Russian Екатерина → Catherine.

The transcription Юлия → Yulia results from option #2: Preserving the pronunciation /ˈjʉlʲɪjə/, or rather, its English approximation /ˈjuːli.ə/.

English orthography is famously phonetically ambiguous (e.g., a is pronounced /eɪ/, /æ/, /ɑː/, or /ə/ in different contexts), and thus it's not always obvious how to represent a sequence of sounds with letters (or vice-versa). But in general, English speakers have the expectation that j is pronounced /dʒ/, and y is pronounced /j/. And conversely, the expected spelling of /j/ is y, and not j. Hence, "Yulia".

Sure, some people may be aware of the fact that j is pronounced /j/ in German (or Polish, Dutch, etc). But that's irrelevant. English speakers will read "Julia" as /ˈdʒuːli.ə/. Even if you expect your readers to recognize the name as being different from the English "Julia", why expect them to pronounce J as German /j/ instead of as Spanish /x/~/h/, French /ʒ/, or Pinyin-Latinized Mandarin /tɕ/? We're translating from Russian into English here, so there's no point in introducing a spelling convention from some arbitrary third language.

Dan
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In English, the letter “j” is (usually) /d͡ʒ/ and the fairly-common name “Julia” is pronounced /ˈd͡ʒuːli.ə/ even if the Julia in question is a historical figure that spoke Latin and would have pronounced the name /ˈi̯uː.li.a/ or /ˈju.li.a/ (depending on era, Classical vs. Ecclesiastical).

So for a modern person whose name is pronounced with the initial /j/ sound, “Julia” would be the wrong transliteration—“j” isn’t the (typical) letter that produces the /j/ sound in English. Instead, “y” (usually) does that. There are exceptions, typically from foreign names, but, those foreign names are 1. typically written in the Roman alphabet to begin with, so transliteration isn’t necessary, and 2. don’t have a conflict with an existing English name with a different pronunciation.

That said, Wikipedia lists at least a few notable figures with a /j/-initial “Julia” spelling.

KRyan
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    Funnily enough, in Italian (which is relevant as it's the language we speak where once they spoke Latin) it evolved to /ˈd͡ʒu.li.a/, spelled Giulia. – Zachiel Dec 06 '22 at 22:46
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The same names, e.g., of biblical or Roman origin, are often pronounced differently in various languages - in a manner more suitable to the phonetic rules of that language. Thus, Russian or Bulgarian name Yulia corresponds to English or French Julia, but not pronounced the same. Official transcription rules used, e.g., for latinizing Cyrillic script for passports, then would require that the name is spelled Yulia.

Another factor is that the same letter may correspond to different sounds: e.g., German Julia is pronounced as Yulia

As similar examples one could mention:

  • Jude/Judas - Yehuda (Hebrew/Yiddish) - Yuda/Iuda (russ.)
  • Jacob/James(?) - Yakov - Iago (sp.)
  • John - Jean (fr.) - Juan (sp., "Khuan") - Ivan (rus.) - Johan (germ.)
  • Joan - Jeanne (fr) - Yoanna/Yana (rus.)
  • Joseph - Iosif (rus.) - Josef (germ.) - Jose (sp.)
Roger V.
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    Jeanne etc. is Jane or Joan in English, not Anne! – Kate Bunting Dec 06 '22 at 09:19
  • @KateBunting all of them trace to the same Greek name - just like Yoanna/Anna in Russian. – Roger V. Dec 06 '22 at 09:24
  • @KateBunting though, upon reflection - Anna could also originate from Hanna. – Roger V. Dec 06 '22 at 09:25
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    According to the Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names Anne derives from the Hebrew Hannah, while Jane/Joan are feminine forms of John, from the Hebrew Johanan. – Kate Bunting Dec 06 '22 at 09:38
  • @KateBunting perhaps, but in Slavic languages the distinction is clearly blurred: Yoanna vs. Anna, Ioann Krestitel = John the Baptist – Roger V. Dec 06 '22 at 09:39
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    Clearly? My researches seem to indicate that Yana/Yoanna is a different name from Anna. – Kate Bunting Dec 06 '22 at 09:51
  • @KateBunting there is proliferation of names - every time one pronounces or spells a name differently, it gives rise to a new name. What is your point exactly - you want me to remove this example? Otherwise, we violate SE policy by engaging in a lengthy discussion in comments. – Roger V. Dec 06 '22 at 09:54
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    I was merely pointing out that Anne and its variants are a different name from Jane and its variants., in all languages. – Kate Bunting Dec 06 '22 at 10:21
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    Judas in Russian is clearly not Yuda if we go the phonetical route, but rather Iuda. – Lodinn Dec 07 '22 at 09:32
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    @Lodinn I think both Иуда and Йуда are possible - certainly in spoken speech. The New Testament character is more likely to be pronounced as Иуда by more literate public, but I heard the other pronunciation on many occasions. There are also last names like Юдин which trace to the same Hebrew name (though a different biblical character) - usually pronounced as Йегуда in Russian, where h is often hardened to г, but the original pronunciation is actually closer to Йуда (and this is how it is pronounced in Modern Hebrew.) – Roger V. Dec 07 '22 at 09:42
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    Most interesting. I am not a church-goer but I also genuinely struggle to remember whether I even ever heard the "Йуда" variant in spoken speech. After some consideration, it seems like a possible reduction in some dialects, but still strikes me as decidedly nonstandard. Юдин is definitely fair game here, and I'd say Йегуда is a bit more standard than Иегуда indeed, but I have heard both. It would seem old Hebrew names in modern Russian (and many others) are truly eclectic, and the same phonemes have evolved differently in different names. – Lodinn Dec 07 '22 at 09:55
  • I have heard "Йуда" from people who grew up in villages in Volga region. If I paid attention to it at the time, it was precisely because it had struck me as unusual. I mention now both versions in my answer. – Roger V. Dec 07 '22 at 10:01
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    Iago, not Tiago. Tiago is rebracketed. – AakashM Dec 07 '22 at 10:21
  • @AakashM Good point. Thanks. – Roger V. Dec 07 '22 at 10:27