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Possible Duplicate:
Future tense in conditional clauses

Which one is correct?

option 1: If I go there, I can meet her

or

option 2: If I will go there, I can meet her

I clearly remember, was told by English (not American) teacher that "If", "When" cannot be used with "will" in the above context. Though, I have seen few people in US saying like option 2

I do know that "If I would go there, I could meet her" is correct (or at least, think so).

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Igor Turman
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3 Answers3

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This topic seems to come up with some frequency here.
Your teacher was overgeneralizing, I'm afraid.

It's not wrong to use will this way; it's just that it may not mean what you want it to mean. In the case you mention, it means that you are commenting on the possibility that you may be willing to go there, which sounds at least odd, and seems very unlikely to be what you intend to mean.

Briefly, will is not "the future tense"; will is a modal auxiliary verb. That means it's got complicated meanings.

All modal auxiliaries like will or must have two kinds of meaning -- one logical (called "epistemic") meaning having to do with truth and probability, like

  • He must be the person they mentioned.

and one social (called "deontic") meaning having to do with obligation and permission, like

  • He must be home by midnight.

The reason why will is often called 'the future tense' in English classes is because it normally only uses its epistemic sense of "sposta", and that's close enough. But will also has a deontic sense of "wanna" that shows up in phrases like be willing to, will power, with a will, with the best will in the world, leave a will, etc.

What happens when you use will in a hypothetical clause is that such clauses only allow the deontic sense of will, so you wind up talking not about what's sposta happen, but about who wants to do what.

So it's perfectly OK to say

  • If you will hand in your homework, I will grade it.
  • Whether he will attend the concert is unknown.
  • I'm not certain when he will sign it.

if you mean

  • If you are willing to hand in your homework, I am willing to grade it.
  • Whether he is willing to attend the concert is unknown.
  • I'm not certain when he's going to get around to signing it.

But only for the deontic wanna sense, not for the usual epistemic sposta sense, of will.

Edit: I forgot to point out that this is a peculiarity of the interaction of two modals - the hypothetical clause construction and the modal auxiliary will. This is like having two strong magnetic fields together; their interactions can become, um, peculiar.

In this case some logicians might say that the deontic interpretation of will in hypotheticals is forced pragmatically because the sposta happen epistemic sense is already covered by the hypothetical construction, so using it again must mean the deontic sense. Maybe so; I'm not sure, personally.

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John Lawler
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  • For the example "If you will hand in your homework, I will grade it" you ascribe a deontic sense to each will. Isn't the second will epistemic? – James Waldby - jwpat7 Mar 15 '12 at 17:28
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    John, your explanation is helpful (+1), but, I bet, even for native speakers is too scientific – Igor Turman Mar 15 '12 at 17:35
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    +1 particularly for "If you will hand in your homework, I will grade it." That one seems natural to me as a native speaker, but I'm always noticing slightly different variations used by non-native speakers that don't work for me. Particularly, Europeans influenced by the fact that verb inflections in their languages work differently in respect of subjunctive, conditional clauses, etc. – FumbleFingers Mar 15 '12 at 17:43
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    Especially for native speakers. – John Lawler Mar 15 '12 at 17:47
  • @jwpat, the second will could be either. I had to pick one for the example and I picked the distinctive one to emphasize the sense I was talking about. – John Lawler Mar 15 '12 at 17:59
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    Just to confuse things further, there is also a dynamic sense: If you will* keep asking stupid questions you'd better expect some stupid answers*. – StoneyB on hiatus Apr 02 '14 at 11:06
  • Yes, it's a stressed form of the deontic will and doesn't just mean 'be willing to', but rather 'insist on (continuing to)'. – John Lawler Apr 02 '14 at 14:34
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    Sorry, folks, but "If you will keep asking stupid questions, you'd etc." even by hoi polloi speech habits (which are fine, I don't hold their feet to the fire, only yours), is not exactly standard phrasing. And the homework thing works only in contexts where both clauses take will (that's the trick there) and requires a prior "situation". One does not say it ex nihllo. – Lambie Jun 04 '19 at 02:48
  • What about the will in this sentence: "If aspirin will ease my headache, I will take a couple tonight instead of this horrible medicine"? Why is it acceptable, if the will doesn't have a deontic sense (as I believe it doesn't)? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 05 '20 at 18:57
  • And what about: "If it will rain later, I'll bring my umbrella"? // Also, do these restrictions on the occurrence of will in if clauses also apply to the other future tense construction, be going to? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 05 '20 at 19:35
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    @MrReality: Both of those work under the condition of the speaker accepting the epistemic will as predictable and reliable. You can introduce either clause with if it is a fact that without changing meaning. As for gonna, it's OK in hypotheticals: If it's gonna rain, I'm goin home, but *If it will rain, I'm going home/I'll go home. – John Lawler Jan 05 '20 at 22:57
  • So is this the only exception to the usual rule that "use of modal will in hypotheticals allows a deontic reading only"? // And do you have any references where I can read up more on this/these exception(s) -- I've read an answer or two related to this exception on this site but I really liked how you explained it just now, so would love to know more? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 06 '20 at 17:54
  • Will, like all modals, is often ambiguous between epistemic and deontic; it's restricted in its senses in hypotheticals, but that's because they're hypothetical. Statements about probability, certainty, and likelihood in frankly imaginary contexts are not fit subjects for universal rules. – John Lawler Jan 06 '20 at 18:51
  • @JohnLawler, re: your comment dated Jan 5, I'm confused whether you meant to write "predictive and reliable" instead of "predictable and reliable"? If you did in fact mean predictable, then would I be correct in deducing that: as a proposition in the if clause gets less and less predictable, the acceptability of the will there in the if clause reduces accordingly too? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 11 '20 at 17:45
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"If I will go there" (or any other "if/when ... will ") is not normal in any variety of English AFAIK.

"If I would go there" appears to be common in colloquial American English, but is not in my (British) idiolect.

Colin Fine
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  • [doorbell: ring, ring] "Ah, that will be John now." Yes, right? Now, as regards conditionals, I'm with you.And though some (emphasis on some) AmE speakers say "If I would go there", I surely do not. In fact, if you listen to some speakers (even a British journalist interviewing Kushner said just today: Do you wish you didn't do x for hadn't done x), who consistently replace would with simple past, you realize they are screwing up the idea of past possibility. – Lambie Jun 04 '19 at 02:44
  • "That will be John now" is the modal will in its epistemic meaning, as opposed to its more usual deontic one. A lot of people seem to have difficulty with irrealis conditionals - it is an area where English is in flux. – Colin Fine Jun 04 '19 at 09:31
  • Yes, absolutely but "Do you wish you didn't do it?" messes with my humours, especially from those who are the media "elite", as it were. – Lambie Jun 04 '19 at 13:51
  • @ColinFine, re: your reply to Lambie, what did you mean by "as opposed to its more usual deontic one"? As per my knowledge, the usual sense of will, as in "I will go to the hospital today.", is the epistemic (logical necessity/probability) one, not the deontic (social obligation/permission) one. – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 05 '20 at 19:05
  • @MrReality: The will in That will be John now has the force of "I conclude that": a typical epistemic meaning for a modal: it is about the state of the speaker's knowledge. You have chosen a first person will, so it easy to confuse that with an epistemic use, but He will go is not epistemic. I think also that "social obligation/permission" is too narrow for "deontic": that would exclude the non-epistemic sense of "can" for example. – Colin Fine Jan 05 '20 at 20:29
  • Maybe the defintions of the terms differ -- I don't consider the "ability" sense of can to be expressing deontic modality, rather I've heard the term alethic modality used for it and subscribe to it myself. Can you provide a link for the definitions of the terms you subscribe to? JLawler's answer above is in agreement with me, "The reason why will is often called 'the future tense' in English classes is because it normally only uses its epistemic sense of "sposta", and that's close enough. But will also has a deontic sense of "wanna" ... – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 06 '20 at 16:59
  • ... that shows up in phrases like be willing to, will power, with a will, with the best will in the world, leave a will, etc." – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 06 '20 at 16:59
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As far as I know, there's something called an ellipted conditional clause as in:

If you think the weather will be fine, we'll go for a walk.

If (you think) the weather will be fine, we'll go for a walk.

If the weather will be fine, we'll go for a walk.

I doubt that can be applied to your example, as it is quite self-explanatory in this regard, but there's some general possibility. However, I don't know exactly whether this construction is widely accepted or considered non-standard.

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