9

A few years ago I moved to North-eastern Scotland. I've noticed that people from all backgrounds and levels of education frequently use the past participle instead of the gerund or infinitive forms, both in written work and in conversation. For example, the group secretary at my place of work has just sent out an e-mail saying:

I will be out of the office on Monday. If you have anything that needs booked before then, please let me know.

This just seems wrong to me: needs booking or needs to be booked would be correct. However, I hear it so regularly up here - and from people that are clearly well educated - that I'm beginning to think there must be more to it.

Does anyone know of any historical precedent for this kind of usage in Scotland, or elsewhere? Perhaps it's actually fine and I'm just showing my ignorance?

Thanks!

TrevorD
  • 12,206
JamesS
  • 191
  • 2
    Related: Using -ed vs. -ing in the “needs washed” construction – Matt E. Эллен Aug 22 '13 at 11:58
  • 1
    Also related: Central Pennsylvanian English speakers: what are the limitations on the "needs washed" construction? – Peter Shor Aug 22 '13 at 12:26
  • 1
    Since it's used in central and western Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia, it must have been used in Scotland when Scots immigrated into these areas ... this would probably be the early 19th century. – Peter Shor Aug 22 '13 at 12:29
  • 1
    Has it not occurred to you that ¨needs booked¨ might be a short form of ¨needs to be booked¨? – itsbruce Aug 22 '13 at 13:16
  • 2
    @itsbruce: even if it is, that doesn't explain why shortening it like this is grammatical in Scotland and regions of Pennsylvania and Ohio, and sounds wrong nearly everywhere else in the English-speaking world. – Peter Shor Aug 22 '13 at 13:30
  • 1
    "to be" is quite often safely omitted -- not necessarily by Scots alone. Furthermore, needs booking & needs booked do not, as you know, mean the same at all. Doesn't sound "wrong nearly everywhere else in the English-speaking world." http://www.dailywritingtips.com/this-sink-needs-fixed/ – Kris Aug 22 '13 at 13:36
  • Thanks to all for the helpful comments - there are some very interesting links here, which I didn't find in my initial search. I'll have to go and brush up on my American history: were Pennsylvania, Ohio and West Virginia more popular with Scottish settlers than the other states, or has this mode of speaking and writing just died out elsewhere? Not a question for this site, I guess. I'm originally from NE England, just a few hours from Scotland, and have never heard "needs washed" etc. used there. It's amazing how sharp this linguistic divide seems to be, at least in the UK. – JamesS Aug 22 '13 at 17:18
  • @JamesS: if I recall right (and it's quite possible I don't), there were lots of Scots and Scots-Irish settlers in the Appalachians up and down the East Coast. Why this construction survived in W. Virginia and central Pennsylvania, and died out in Kentucky and further south, I can't tell. But after the grammatical construction was established in central Pennsylvania, I assume was carried west with the settlers who went west, even if they weren't of Scottish ancestry. Thus, you get a long, narrow section of the U.S. where it's used. (@Kris's link says it extends much farther West than Ohio.) – Peter Shor Aug 23 '13 at 12:54

2 Answers2

1

In strict rules of english, it is incorrect. However, since Scotland uses english in british form and it was a different nation centuries ago, it is probably a regional dialect.

user51300
  • 183
1

I'm English, but I've been living in Scotland (Edinburgh) for 3 years and dating a Scot (with all the frequent trips to Scotland that that implies) for seven. Like you, I was surprised the first time I heard it, but it's definitely correct north of the border - even in formal writing - and I now use it myself fairly frequently: it's just so ubiquitous you forget that it sounds odd to a Sassenach ear...

The construction is a passive infinitive with an auxilliary verb ("need to be done"). The passive infinitive is replaced with the past participle ("to be done" is replaced with "done").

  • Have you got anything else you want cooked?
  • I've got a few more things that need done before I can leave.
  • How much of this do you expect finished today?

The last one is less common - it's mostly used with "need" or "want". Of the more standard forms, you might hear "needs doing" as an alternative, but you'd rarely hear "needs to be done".

It's actually sometimes used in "normal" English when the object falls between the auxilliary and the other verb.

He needs his ass kicked!

I believe English speakers almost universally would say "kicked" rather than "to be kicked" in the above sentence. However, I'm sure I'll be told if my sentence needs corrected ;)

starsplusplus
  • 1,390