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I am a native speaker of German, and I often see the English verb find being used like its German cognate finden. For example:

My students and I find your platform very useful and very appealing visually, as well. — Source

This just feels wrong to me. Shouldn’t it be something like:

My students and I find your platform to be very useful and very appealing visually, as well.

Can you use find like that?

tchrist
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phw
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    You can use find like that. Normally, you'd be correct. But find is a member of a class of "small verbs" (including make, get, come, and go) that allow infinitives without to, just like modal auxiliaries do. They're halfway toward becoming auxiliary verbs, and they're pretty bleached of meaning. – John Lawler Oct 19 '13 at 14:06
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    And you're more likely to be identified as a native English speaker if you use the first variant you cite (but possibly that would be undesirable?) Though 'My students and I find your platform very useful, and also very appealing visually' is probably even more idiomatic. – Edwin Ashworth Oct 19 '13 at 14:55
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    @JohnLawler Eh? OP cites uses with no verb, not with a bare infinitive. I'm having trouble thinking of find with a bare infinitive rather than an -ing form. – StoneyB on hiatus Oct 19 '13 at 16:01
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    @StoneyB: Sorry, wrong piece of comment. I meant to say that small verbs also govern to be-Deletion, and that this does come from the (also grammatical) find X to be Y construction, via B-Raising. But I got distracted and mentioned a different peculiarity that wasn't relevant here. Thanks for pointing it out. – John Lawler Oct 19 '13 at 16:46
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    @JohnLawler: Can you add this information in an answer? It seems to adequately answer the question. – MrHen Oct 19 '13 at 17:39
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    and... for me "very appealing visually" feels wrong, "visually very appealing" sounds better :) –  Oct 23 '13 at 10:16
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    @RegDwight, I think I may have misunderstood the OP's request: "Can you use to find like that?" as to whether his second variant is acceptable. Instead, Shoe's post is confirming the validity of the first usage. Can I make an edit to the bounty? As I am curious to know about the former, and nobody has really touched that aspect. – Mari-Lou A Oct 26 '13 at 10:09
  • Closely related is this question, which considers various possibilities of "I think/believe/find/etc. X". Where *X* may be in the form your platform to be* useful, or your platform is useful*. I offered a bounty there, but it didn't seem to bring the matter to a definitive conclusion. – FumbleFingers Oct 27 '13 at 22:42
  • Personally, I think there's a subtle difference between (a juror) saying "I find him to be guilty", and (anyone) saying "I find Joyce's Finnegans Wake to be incomprehensible". Specifically, it's to do with the fact that ...to be... in such constructions seems to imply that the "finding" is something created/made true by the speaker (so it works better in the "juror" context for me). – FumbleFingers Oct 27 '13 at 23:03
  • @Mari-LouA: Could you be more specific in what you're looking for in an answer? I'm not sure what's "first" or "former" anymore. There are a number of different possible verbs and constructions like find NP (to be) PredAdj. – John Lawler Oct 28 '13 at 20:30
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    @JohnLawler :1)"I find your platform very useful" 2) "I find your platform to be* very useful"* Q: "Can you use find like that?" I am interested in No2, and I interpreted the OP's question as asking confirmation whether find + object + to be is acceptable. So far the posted answers have concentrated on whether No1 is "natural" and "correct". Something which I already knew. – Mari-Lou A Oct 28 '13 at 20:39
  • To-be-Deletion is optional with find; the DO is clearly raised from the Su of the infinitive clause, and deleting the remaining infinitive mark is common enough with small verbs, as I said. There really isn't any syntactic or semantic difference between the to-be-deleted ones (type 2) and the undeleted ones (type 1). It's just a lexical vagary, an auxiliary (for the PredAdj) that's no longer necessary since only the VP is left after Raising, and the VP is just to be + Adj. Is there some special difficulty? – John Lawler Oct 28 '13 at 20:47
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    Thank you @JohnLawler. Much appreciated, would it be fair to say that type 2 is outdated? – Mari-Lou A Oct 28 '13 at 21:41
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    Not as far as I know. More depends on how many syllables one wants to use, which affects how many milliseconds one's addressee has to comprehend the structure. – John Lawler Oct 29 '13 at 02:37
  • @Mari-LouA You should award the bounty to Nordquist: verbless clause – Talia Ford Oct 29 '13 at 16:10
  • @TaliaFord why didn't you post it as an answer? I see no difference in copying an informative answer from a reputable source than someone copy and pasting from OED. You're right about Nordquist, but he's not an ELU user. :( – Mari-Lou A Oct 29 '13 at 19:14
  • @Mari-LouA I'm having some qualms about picking up that bounty. The thing is, I didn't do any research for this q and wasn't clear on the answer until I stumbled upon Nordquist's entry while I was looking up info for some other q. It was only then that I remembered this one. But, you're right; somebody oughta shoulda gotta do it. I think it should be you. The q gets deigned with a nifty answer, no bounty is undeservedly awarded, and all is well in the Kingdom of God. – Talia Ford Oct 29 '13 at 19:51
  • I didn't do any research, I was hoping others would. Once I answered my own question because nobody had answered it satisfactorily and I immediately got downvoted! Maybe they thought I was acting out of hubris, who knows?! @TaliaFord you found a good source, you posted the link now post the answer. Think about it at least. – Mari-Lou A Oct 29 '13 at 19:59
  • @Mary-Lou, The problem as I see it is that you have used the comments to ask a follow-up question to the OP's original question. Therefore Thalia's answer does not seem to fit as a separate answer on this page. Maybe you could consider asking your question as a separate question; then Thalia can post her answer to it there (and pick up the bounty). – Shoe Oct 30 '13 at 09:17
  • @Mari-LouA Whoever downvoted you for answering your own q, which is a practice SE not only permits but also encourages, should have their acct suspended. As for answering your subquestion, I agree with Shoe. You may want to start another one; this one is about the 1st sentence only.But be assured, the to-infinitive clause in the 2nd S is grammatical.More proofs: to find something to be true, find X [to be] Y, http://books.google.com/books?id=EXwdvQgObVIC&pg=PA288 – Talia Ford Oct 30 '13 at 21:09
  • @TaliaFord I cannot know if that was the motivation for the downvote, maybe I went too much in detail, maybe they thought the images I posted were superfluous. I don't know. I have given up asking and thinking about such matters. It's a great pity you haven't posted an answer, it would give a more complete picture. So be it. I can neither force nor tempt you it seems. – Mari-Lou A Oct 30 '13 at 21:29

4 Answers4

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According to the Cambridge Grammar of English (p523) under the heading Complex Transitive Complementation:

Many common verbs may be used with a direct object followed by an adjective phrase acting as an object complement.

The GCE includes the example:

We found the garden slightly disappointing.

This corresponds to the OP's first sentence:

My students and I find your platform very useful ...

which is consequently grammatical.

Among the other verbs listed by the CGE that can be followed by a direct object and object complement are: keep and make. CGE examples:

I must keep dad's (sic) dinner warm.

The whole of mankind makes me angry.

Shoe
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  • @Mari-Lou. I interpreted the OP's question Can you use to find like that? as applying to the first sentence, which he or she finds weird (!) and not to the second one. Maybe this could be clarified. – Shoe Oct 26 '13 at 09:59
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    I think I may have misinterpreted the OP's question. So I'll make it my own. Is "find + noun + to be" possible and acceptable? – Mari-Lou A Oct 26 '13 at 10:00
  • I suspect you'll have to ask a separate question about "find + noun + to be". The Comments section is probably not the best place for considered answers. – Shoe Oct 26 '13 at 10:28
  • My question was aimed at you :) I just have this niggling doubt, btw I do like your answer. – Mari-Lou A Oct 26 '13 at 10:32
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    Off the top of my head I suspect that to be is more likely to be inserted if the direct object is a heavy noun phrase whose head is distant from its object complement. So, I find this usage unobjectionable is unproblematic (and for me preferable to I find this usage to be unobjectionable), whereas I find the way that he always tries to gather peas on the top of his fork when eating out very irritating niggles somewhat. But I really think this deserves a question in its own right. – Shoe Oct 26 '13 at 10:50
  • And you made that last sentence off the top of your head?! :) – Mari-Lou A Oct 26 '13 at 10:52
  • No, the suspicion was off the top of my head, but not the example sentence - although I do have someone specific in mind! – Shoe Oct 26 '13 at 10:54
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    I was mostly interested whether this is correct English and not a 'Germanism'. I much enjoyed all the answers and different interpretations. Thanks! – phw Oct 26 '13 at 19:17
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    @phw No. It's not a Germanism. English has both versions and there are also other similar cases in English. – Kris Oct 28 '13 at 13:02
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If your sentence is just :

I find your platform very useful and very appealing visually, as well.

then we can use "to be",

I find your platform to be very useful and very appealing visually, as well.

But, if you are going to include "My students", then

My students and I find your platform very useful and very appealing visually, as well.

is much appropriate.

uma
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I'm unconvinced by Edwin Ashworth's suggestion that the first variant is more likely to have you accepted as a native speaker. I find the first variant to be very awkward although I accept that a sizeable proportion of native speakers (though not the majority, I think) will use it.

CrimsonDark
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As a native (British) English speaker, I find the first form far more natural, but I might use the second in very formal writing. (And without even thinking about it, I realise that I used the first form in that sentence!)

digitig
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