2

Usually, if I am writing that a person said something, I would precede the quoted text with a comma, like this:

Then he said, "I don't know why it happened."

However, in this sentence, an editor told me the comma after "he" wasn't necessary:

The author writes, and I'm quoting his words exactly, that he, “couldn't understand why it happened."

Which would make it read like so:

The author writes, and I'm quoting his words exactly, that he “couldn't understand why it happened."

I tried to look up the rules that cover this, but I'm still not clear if it's a matter of one version being more correct or not, or just a style preference. I fear it might be the kind of thing that pedants and would-be editors will complain about no matter which way I go.

Is either more definitively correct? If both are acceptable, is there a compelling reason I should choose one over the other?

Community
  • 1
Questioner
  • 1,249
  • Duplicate of 'Is there a comma needed before quotation?' possible duplicate of Use of commas before a quote – Edwin Ashworth Jan 28 '14 at 06:04
  • 3
    @EdwinAshworth Respectfully, sometimes I don't get the rules here. That question was closed as off topic and therefore I ignored it in my search for answers. Either that question does have a valid answer, in which case it shouldn't be closed, or it is off topic in which case my answer should stand on its own. And in any case, I can't see how either question about commas is off topic for the site. – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 06:13
  • No. Do not include a comma between he and the quoted part. By the way, you seem to use the device as scare quotes in this case, than merely quoting the author. – Kris Jan 28 '14 at 06:15
  • @EdwinAshworth This is not an instance of the regular case dealt with in the cited post. Notice the that and the he. – Kris Jan 28 '14 at 06:16
  • 1
    Er...just a correction on my comment: I meant my "question" should stand on its own, not my "answer". – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 06:26
  • Did you check the first reference (only one link is possible)? This (@Kris) addresses various types of quote structures, including those not introduced by quotative verbs. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 28 '14 at 06:28
  • @Kris, sorry, I am not clear what you mean by "use the device as scare quotes." Are you saying it's not clear that I am actually quoting the author I am speaking about? It might just need the full context, too long to reproduce here, but in any case my aim is to make clear that the author said exactly what is in the quotes. – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 06:30
  • 'Scare quotes' are those that imply that you do not necessarily agree with the author, or such, rather than that you are merely reproducing the text. If needed please see 'scare quotes' on WP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes – Kris Jan 28 '14 at 06:34
  • 2
    Perhaps superfluously, I think this question is perfectly fine, unless a duplicate already exists, which I am regrettably too lazy to search for. – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 28 '14 at 06:37
  • @EdwinAshworth, the other question you reference has no accepted answer, and the top answer says, essentially, "in modern English all sorts of options are possible." That falls far short of any helpful direction. – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 06:38
  • @Kris, thank you for the information about scare quotes. Having looked into it, I think given the greater context, my purpose for the quote will not be misunderstood by the reader. But I appreciate you alerting me to the potential issues. – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 06:42
  • '[I]n modern English all sorts of options are possible' is a perfect answer to your 'Is either more definitively correct?' even if you don't like it. nxx writes at the first linked post: 'In your example, the quotation is not preceded by a speaker tag ... and is part of the flow of your own sentence, so do not use a comma.' I'd say that answers your 'If both are acceptable, is there a ... reason I should choose one over the other?' (If there's a compelling reason, the other alternative isn't acceptable.) – Edwin Ashworth Jan 28 '14 at 06:48
  • 1
    @EdwinAshworth, saying "anything is possible" might encompass the two examples I give, but it is not a suitable response to the clarification in my original question: "If both are acceptable, is there a compelling reason I should choose one over the other?" In other words, I had anticipated both "options were possible", and had hoped to pre-empt answers as wide open as the one you linked to by clarifying what I hoped to get as an answer. Sorry, but while the answers you are pointing to unquestionably related, they are nowhere near as final as you are proposing. – Questioner Jan 28 '14 at 07:08
  • 1
    The rule is (and I quote exactly from the linked article): 'there's no hard and fast rule. It depends on what flow you wish to impart to the text.' I chose the colon here; I would choose the comma or zero punctuation before the opening inverted commas in other situations. This has all been covered before. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 28 '14 at 07:54
  • 1
    Closing this as a duplicate of a question that was closed as "off-topic" is perverse. The question is perfectly valid and is on-topic for this site. Not only am I voting to keep this question open, I'm nominating the other one to be reopened. Once this nonsense gets sorted out, we can consider closing one of them as a duplicate of the other (I would prefer that this question be the "master," as it's worded better and has attracted better answers). – phenry Jan 29 '14 at 01:09
  • @EdwinAshworth: I'm sorry, but your line of reasoning seems to be defending the vague and unhelpful. Yes, I know there is no one rule. That is not being debated. As I asked in my question, I am looking for reasons to go one way or the other. I don't understand how it is not clear to you that when someone asks a question like "I know I could maybe go either way, can someone help me choose?" that is completely void of information to answer with, "you can go either way." – Questioner Jan 29 '14 at 06:26
  • I'm sorry. I assumed I was permitted to answer your 'I tried to look up the rules that cover this, but I'm still not clear if it's a matter of one version being more correct or not, or just a style preference. I fear it might be the kind of thing that pedants and would-be editors will complain about no matter which way I go.

    Is either more definitively correct? If both are acceptable, is there a compelling reason I should choose one over the other?' too. Perhaps you'd better make your questions clearer in future.

     – Edwin Ashworth Jan 29 '14 at 10:23

1 Answers1

4

The issue here is that the syntax of the core of the sentence he couldn't... transcends the quotation boundary. The subject, he, is not part of the quotation, but its verb, couldn't, is. In that case, you would not use a comma, unless you already needed a comma in regular syntax, i.e. if there were no quotation. But that is not the case here. So this is the correct version:

The author writes, and I'm quoting his words exactly, that he “couldn't understand why it happened."

In this case, a verb and its complements (the core of a sentence) are considered to be too intimately connected to be separated by a comma even if one is part of a quotation. The same applies to other intimate links between words, such as that between article and noun, between adjective and noun, etc.

Cerberus - Reinstate Monica
  • 61,585
  • +1 However, I find that too complicated. You could quote practically any part of the author's sentence within your own sentence appropriately delimiting the quoted part. I see no other rules applicable here. – Kris Jan 28 '14 at 06:40
  • According to Cerberus, "you would not use a comma, unless you already needed a comma in regular syntax."; According to Cerberus, you "would not use a comma, ..."; According to Cerberus, you would "not use a comma, ..."; According to Cerberus, you would not use a "comma, ...", ... Why not? – Kris Jan 28 '14 at 06:45
  • @Kris: Okay, fair enough, you have a point. I have specified my explanation to "the core of the sentence", and I have added more of an explanation at the end. Better? – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 28 '14 at 07:04