A word for old-fashioned, dirty bar/place (spit-and-sawdust)

Question

Is there a (common) single word for an old-fashioned, non-modern, simple, dirty, untidy bar/place ?

A noun would be preferable.

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Details:

There is an informal British term:

spit-and-sawdust Used to describe an old-fashioned or simple pub or bar, of a type whose floor was originally covered with sawdust.

First of all:

• Is this word only used as an adjective? Can it be used as a noun?
• Is it a common word? Can it be used for places other than pubs/bars?

Secondly:

• Is there any AmE equivalent of this word? or a common word both in BrE and AmE?
• Can we say that "shabby" is an equivalent?

Answer 1

The usual term for no-frills bars or pubs in America is dive bar. Many people simply call such a bar a dive. They are not all shabby or run-down, but many are.

Answer 2

I think the most common term in America for this is saloon. In westerns the cowboys would be drinking at the saloon. Surely its floors weren't better than sawdust.

Saloon usage can vary between Old Western to your corner pub that is a little old fashioned, to a retro microbrewery. It is still very common in the Midwest US to open a bar with the name Saloon in it - or refer to your bar as a saloon. Some are dirtier than others obviously, and the type you are pointing at would normally be found in rural areas or in the South. Fort Worth has a famous section of town called the Stockyards that has pretty much exactly what you are describing and they go by saloon or honky-tonk.

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However I do remember a phrase from my youth in the south - a honky-tonk. My grandma actually ran a honky-tonk. Pizza place by day and bar/concert place at night. Half of the flooring was concrete though. Other half was dirt/straw.

a cheap or disreputable bar, club, or dance hall, typically where country music is played. "country bands at highway honky-tonks"

A great example (of a rather large honky-tonk) was Gilley's, seen on the movie Urban Cowboy. Not all honky-tonks had a bull but it wasn't uncommon.

Also via Patrick (see comments) I missed probably the best example I have seen so far via Blues Brothers clip of Bob's Country Bunker.

Answer 3

Consider "dump," "roadhouse", and 'juke (house/joint)."

roadhouse: a tavern located on a road outside of a town or city.

juke house: Southern US: a cheap roadhouse.

Answer 4

The most common term used in Arizona would be "dive" bar. Some have sawdust or peanut shells on the ground, others do not. In general a dive bar tends to be low key, less pricey, and dark. You can use the slang version, as "dive" to be a noun or you can simply refer to it as a "dive" (adjective) "bar" (noun). Another relevant term related to dive bar is a honkytonk, which is a noun and would err on the side of more western themed saloons and down south America.

On urbandictionary.com dive bar is defined as:

    Dive bar: 

    A well-worn, unglamorous bar, often serving a cheap, simple selection of drinks to a regular clientele. 

   The term can describe anything from a comfortable-but-basic neighborhood pub to the nastiest swill-slinging hole. 

    You don't need to dress up; we're just going to the dive bar down the street. 

    Man, that place is such a dive bar... Don't go in unless you plan to burn your clothes afterwards. 

    by Ella Kushan August 07, 2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dive_bar

Answer 5

The term "hole in the wall" also comes to mind. I think this is regional though, and different places have different terms for this. I've been told that in Puerto Rico they call it a "bad dead bar", which I kinda like...

Answer 6

Groggery is a low-class tavern (not necessarily dirty) but an informal, albeit archaic term: groggery /grog"euh ree/, n., pl. groggeries. a slightly disreputable barroom.

Answer 7

Greasy spoon a term which according to Wikipedia has also been adopted in the US. It was originally used to describe those cheap, nasty-looking cafès that were often present on high streets in working class areas or dotted along motorways, frequented mainly by tramps, and lorry/truck drivers. These cafès usually served traditional English breakfast and piping hot tea in chipped cups or mugs. As for its name, let's say hygiene was not included in the menu, traces of grease would often be visible on cutlery, glasses and tabletops.

Greasy spoon is a colloquial term for a small, cheap restaurant or diner that most typically specializes in fried foods. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the term originated in the United Kingdom, and is now used in various English-speaking countries.

The name "greasy spoon" is a reference to the typically high fat, high calorie menu items such as eggs and bacon. The term has been used to refer to a "small cheap restaurant" since 1925.

Answer 8

I’m pretty sure English lacks a single word that connotes both “dirty” and “old-fashioned.”

“Saloon” is the word for the bars of the American frontier, as commonly seen in westerns. A saloon can be fancy and upscale, or cheap and dirty.

“Dive” is a word (one among many, but the one I feel is most common) for a cheap, dirty bar. Dives are not necessarily old-fashioned, though very often dives feel old since everything is cheap, run-down, thoroughly used and rarely replaced or upgraded.

A saloon can easily be a dive, but it need not be, and a dive could be a saloon, but it very well may not be.

People do say “dive bar,” using “dive” as an adjective, which you might extend to “dive saloon,” but I don’t think I’ve ever heard the phrase used. That said, I think most readers will immediately understand the meaning of the phrase.

Answer 9

hole in the wall maybe - or drinking hole according to: http://www.dict.cc/deutsch-englisch/Spelunke.html

The German word for this is Spelunke by the way.

Answer 10

With apologies to the Rhythm Aces then the Amazing Rhythm Aces (and the many who followed singing "Third Rate Romance"), how about "low-rent rendezvous?"