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I am writing to my manager. I want to suggest making a new service to her. I have problem with this sentence:

Can you suggest to them that [Company Name] develops the Italian version of the website?

Am I using the word that correctly here?

tchrist
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2 Answers2

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Your use of "that" is alright; however, it puts that clause into the subjunctive mood, so you need to change the verb's conjugation:

Can you suggest to them that Company Name develop the Italian version of the website?

Edit

As others have pointed out, that answer was written a bit too hastily; it was misleading in at least one respect, and I missed including some of the nuance behind what I was saying.

First, it's not the "that" that's selecting for the unconjugated verb, but rather the verb "suggests". Fair enough. Second, the sentence is grammatical as is, but for what I would (unscientifically) consider to be a significant percentage of native American English speakers, it implies a meaning different from what the OP said they intended. More on that below.

Now, the subjunctive. No, it doesn't formally exist in English as a verbal construction, and yes, referring to it that way might confuse speakers of a language that does have a special conjugation for mood. But old habits die hard, and I find it to be a useful way to choose an appropriate verbal conjugation in subordinate clauses (or in this case, no conjugation; the bare infinitive form is the choice that conveys the OP's intention most clearly).

This is why I maintain that it's a useful concept: Take a look at languages that do have a true subjunctive mood - say, French. Il faut que vous soyez ici à 11h. / It's necessary that you be here at 11 o'clock. The special conjugation of être is expressive of the implicit context of the phrase - tomorrow hasn't happened; you aren't here at 11 o'clock yet. This is how the subjunctive mood works; a subjunctive clause is used when referring to a situation that isn't the current reality. OP said they wanted their company to develop the new website, and that apparently isn't the plan at the moment, so I'd suggest choosing a verb form that signals this.

Now, linguists (myself included at times) get all cranky when confronted with "rules" mostly invented out of thin air by self-appointed "grammarians", which is likely the reason American kids in grade school back in the day (or those of us taught by people who were in grade school back in the day) were told to call this the "subjunctive" in the first place. The "experts" saw a passing similarity in modern usage to a Latin construction, and, without any sort of linguistic inquiry (or generative analysis, which hadn't been invented yet), made up a half-baked explanation and wrote it in a book.

After having learned a little more about a variety of languages and studying linguistics myself, though, I still occasionally find one of the old-fashioned explanations useful. This is one of those times.

Think of it like Pascal's Wager, but for verbs. A lot of the "rules" change over time (as they're governed by usage, not fiat), and people might understand your meaning whichever conjugation you choose, but you lose nothing by choosing the infinitive form, and for a certain percentage of interlocutors, you'll add to the clarity of your speech.

Josh
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    I agree, but I would also suggest that it is more the verb suggest itself rather than the subordinator that that here triggers the switch to a bare infinitive instead of a finite form to signal the mandative subjunctive context of the suggestion. – tchrist Jul 15 '14 at 16:54
  • It depends on what suggest means; if it means "tactfully point out a mistake" it certainly can have a tensed verb. Can you suggest to them that PepsiCola developed/develops the Italian version of the website (and therefore there's no point in our trying to do it)? The complementizer that does not put anything "into the subjunctive mood" because English doesn't have a subjunctive mood. – John Lawler Jul 15 '14 at 16:54
  • @JohnLawler I’m not convinced that you and I are saying anything different from each other here, although I didn’t spell out how the choice of suggest vs suggests changes the sense of the sentence. – tchrist Jul 15 '14 at 16:58
  • Yes; my comment was hastily worded. You're both right in certain respects - the verb has more to do with the construction than the subordinator, and English doesn't have a true subjunctive mood. It does, however, retain artifacts of its linguistic ancestors that have full-fledged subjunctive systems, which is what we're seeing here. – Josh Jul 15 '14 at 16:59
  • @SpacePope: But there are fossils of other nonproductive phenomena around, too. Verbs ending in CH or DGE normally are causative/inchoative, as are verbs ending in -en or beginning in en-. And we have lots of other paradigms sliding around unnoticed, too; what's special about subjunctive constructions that they hafta be invoked? Especially when nobody gets it right? Enough, already, about the subjunctive. As Terry Pratchett puts it, "Getting an education is a little like a communicable sexual disease. It makes you unsuitable for a lot of jobs, and then you have the urge to pass it on." – John Lawler Jul 15 '14 at 17:05
  • @JohnLawler You're using a lot of polysyllabic jargon for someone who's opposed to education :). I said what I did because I wanted to leave OP's construction alone as much as possible; the subjunctive construction (obsolete or not) is what's in play here, and the verb conjugation as it was was inappropriate for the context of suggesting that something new should happen. – Josh Jul 15 '14 at 17:15
  • I'm not opposed to education. I'm opposed to passing on pious bullshit and calling it education. Talking about the main verb controlling the form of the verb in the lower clause does use more than one syllable, granted; but it's correct in every case, not just in four infrequent and contentious constructions. Special pleadings for "the English subjunctive" remind me of Brahe's model of the solar system as opposed to Kepler's. Brahe had all the planets going around the sun like Kepler; except for Earth -- the sun and all the planets revolved around the Earth, because that was traditional. – John Lawler Jul 15 '14 at 17:22
  • 'Subjunctive'? It is as correct to say 'Can you suggest to them that John develops the Italian version of the website?' as 'Can you suggest to them that John develop the Italian version of the website?' in spite of the potential ambiguity with the former (Kazuyuki Urata writing in 'Verb Forms in the Lest-Clause in Present-Day English', where he notes the US but not the UK preference for the 'mandative subjunctive' in strings after suggest/demand/request that X ___). We accept the need for contextual cues with 'He suggested that we go to the cinema' where the verb-form is indeterminate. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 15 '14 at 19:10
  • @EdwinAshworth Depends on what you mean by "correct". Both are grammatical, yes, but they have different pragmatic content, as the other current answerer points out. I was trying to maintain the intent of the OP as I read it. – Josh Jul 15 '14 at 20:39
  • Pragmatic content? I don't understand. Do you mean semantic? In British English at least, as the work I referenced points out, 'Can you suggest that John develops the Italian version of the website?' can be used to mean exactly the same thing as 'Can you suggest that John develop the Italian version of the website?' Yes, it's ambiguous, but that doesn't stop anyone using 'He suggested that we go to the cinema'. 'I insist that John see it' would sound quite strange to most British ears. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 15 '14 at 22:32
  • @EdwinAshworth No, I mean pragmatic - or, more specifically, a combination of semantic and pragmatic meaning. I'm going to make an edit here in a bit to hopefully clear up some of what I'm saying... – Josh Jul 15 '14 at 23:49
  • From the internet, “pragmatic content is what the speaker communicates over and above the semantic content of the sentence”. As both OP and I give bald statements (ie without further discourse, or any mention of non-verbal signals) I don't see how we can get beyond looking at the semantics involved here. // However, your revised answer looks far more acceptable to me. The disambiguation afforded by the choice of the 'mandative subjunctive' (or whatever term JL prefers) is admittedly an argument in favour of that choice – but it doesn't help at all except with 1st person singular constructions. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 16 '14 at 09:03
  • In this case, the content "over and above the semantic content" is that the situation being discussed isn't the current reality. That's the context in which the statement is being made. I was working pragmatics into the edit, but I mangled its introduction a bit, so I took it out. I don't think it's limited to 1st person singular; the construction works the same way with any person and number - "They suggest that we be there", "You suggested that he deliver the letter, but I did instead", etc. – Josh Jul 16 '14 at 12:37
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Your sentence is grammatically correct.

We cannot say whether what it says is what you want to say. If you make clear your intended message using other words then perhaps we can tell you whether that sentence conveys your message.

You say that you want to suggest to your manager that (someone) is, or should be, "making a new service". Your sentence does not say anything about that. Perhaps if you clarify what you want to say, we can help more.

Drew
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    I want to suggest to my manager that our company should develop the Italian version of a website for a foreign company. is my sentence clear for that purpose please? – Marco Dinatsoli Jul 15 '14 at 16:48
  • For this purpose, one can only suggest that someone do something, not that someone does something, as that would mean something else altogether. – tchrist Jul 15 '14 at 16:50
  • @tchrist so you mean that I should have written I suggest that our company develop the Italian version ?? but that way seems too rude right? I can't say to her that I suggest. I would rather give her the choice that is why I have used Can you.. do you got me please? – Marco Dinatsoli Jul 15 '14 at 16:52
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    @MarcoDinatsoli I don’t understand what you mean by “too rude”, but if you want to soften the suggestions, you can change suggest to would suggest or might suggest, just as can you can be softened into could you. – tchrist Jul 15 '14 at 16:57
  • @tchrist You shouldn't claim that alternatives to the use of the 'mandative subjunctive' are incorrect. More regular choices in the US, quite probably. As Quirk (ACGEL 3.59) says, 'The employees have demanded that the manager resigns', the indicative, is a valid choice and, together with the modal usage (putative should), favoured in the UK. As for the obvious ambiguity: do you forbid 'She suggested that we go to the cinema' on these grounds? Flying aeroplanes can be dangerous. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 16 '14 at 09:16
  • @EdwinAshworth Well, they certainly sound incorrect on this side of the pond. And I don’t forbid the obvious. – tchrist Jul 16 '14 at 12:55
  • @tchrist No, they sound non-standard to some on your side of the pond. I don't go round saying 'He looked out the window' sounds wrong just because few people use 'out' as a preposition in the UK. I recognise that it is a licensed usage. In the US, and therefore, by implication, not to be labelled 'incorrect' in say my part of the world. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 16 '14 at 14:36