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This is old news ...but I am having trouble understanding why some of Alanis Morisette's examples from her song 'Ironic' are not ironic.

For example: "An old man turned ninety-eight. He won the lottery and died the next day." In this case, isn't there an incongruity between what he expected and what happened? He was hoping to win the lottery his whole life...but when he finally did, he ended up dying. Isn't there an outcome in this case that was opposite to what was expected?

Another example: "It's meeting the man of my dreams and then meeting his beautiful wife." Isn't this ironic because she tries hard to find the right guy but then finds him and that he is married. Isn't his married status opposite to what was expected?

Thank you for answering these questions.

Lumberjack
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0MM0
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    Welcome to ELU. What makes you think they are not intended ironically? – StoneyB on hiatus Jul 25 '14 at 22:18
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    This has been addressed before. Have a look at this post about the different 'types of irony' (the word is used with some very different senses, and the Wikipedia article referred to explains this well). The examples you list are obvious examples of the 'irony of fate' (when 'fate seems to build up your hopes and then dash them'). – Edwin Ashworth Jul 25 '14 at 22:20
  • I have read / heard that none of the examples in her song are supposed to be ironic. – 0MM0 Jul 25 '14 at 22:20
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    Whoever said this is probably using the definition of one of the other forms of irony. It's not 'verbal irony', for instance. But whoever said 'it's not irony' without qualification is in error. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 25 '14 at 22:26
  • @ Edwin - Thanks! I just wasn't sure since I always hear people criticizing that song's incorrect use of irony. Would it also be considered situational irony? – 0MM0 Jul 25 '14 at 22:27
  • @Mary, People who say this is not ironic probably have irony confused with sarcasm. That is very common. Even most of the commentators on the link Edwin gave make that mistake. – developerwjk Jul 25 '14 at 22:50
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    No; it's 'irony of fate' / 'cosmic irony' if one goes with this particular Wikipedia analysis, classification, and use of labels (there are slight variants elsewhere on the internet). A wonderful opportunity seems to have or actually has (actually winning the lottery) opened up, but is then shown to be (the man is actually already married) or actually changed to be (the lottery-winner dies before he can enjoy the money) a no-hoper. Situational irony is when you mistakenly give someone two 5s for a 20. After you've just won the Fields Medal (think Nobel Prize if there were one for maths). – Edwin Ashworth Jul 25 '14 at 23:24
  • Situational irony: we should all be able to laugh. Cosmic irony: not a good reason to laugh (though one might try to rectify one's fatalistic philosophy). – Edwin Ashworth Jul 25 '14 at 23:27
  • @EdwinAshworth Thanks Edwin - your explanation was very helpful! – 0MM0 Jul 26 '14 at 00:13
  • @developerwjk good point! I am still a little confused about the overlap between those two terms (and where they differentiate). I think 'intention' (mocking someone versus simply having incongruity between what is said and what is true) might be a good way to denote the difference. – 0MM0 Jul 26 '14 at 00:19
  • Yes, sarcasm always involves sniping, a measure of vitriol. Gentle irony (in the sense of using verbal irony ['King Alfred here was one of the finalists on Masterchef'] or pointing out situational irony ['No, winning the Fields medal doesn't mean you can redefine the number system :-)']) needs handling judiciously, but has benign intent. – Edwin Ashworth Jul 26 '14 at 06:43
  • @EdwinAshworth :-) Thanks for those examples! (and now, I need to figure out the difference between sardonicism and sarcasm) – 0MM0 Jul 26 '14 at 19:29
  • I remember a monologue by George Carlin talking about coincidences being mistaken for irony, perhaps it was this you heard. There is by the way a funnier version but this explains the meaning of ironic quite well. – Mari-Lou A Jul 30 '14 at 07:14
  • @ Mari-Lou A: I don't think Carlin delves into the 'cosmic irony' sense, which obviously overlaps with 'coincidence'. Dictionary.com has the following definition: 'the idea that fate, destiny, or a god controls and toys with human hopes and expectations; also, the belief that the universe is so large and man is so small that the universe is indifferent to the plight of man; also called irony of fate'. The idea of a 'quirk of fate' (a diabetic being hit by a truck carrying insulin) isn't necessary in cosmic irony, merely a disastrous unexpected change of fortune. Glad I don't believe in fate! – Edwin Ashworth Aug 01 '14 at 10:15

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