Idiom for "just because you give something a different name, it doesn't change what it is"

Question

I'm looking for a way to idiomatically express the sentiment that just because you give something a different name, or precede it with a disclaimer, it doesn't change what it is, e.g.:

"I mean this as constructive criticism, not an insult, but ..."
"I'm not racist, but ..."
"With all due respect ..."

Regarding the "if you preface..." aspect of this. What about something like "it doesn't matter how you dress it up, but what you're saying is XYZ" .. type of thing? — Fattie, Aug 25 '14 at 15:08
possible duplicate of What is it called when someone says something like: "I'm not a racist, but..." — Kyle Hale, Aug 25 '14 at 15:24
I may be misunderstanding, however, the one that came to mind is "call a spade a spade". — PatrickT, Aug 25 '14 at 17:14
I don't care for the examples given. You're making a blanket assumption that what follows is inherently insulting, racist, or disrespectful, and I don't buy it. As pointed out in the possible dupe the responsibility for the perceived issue isn't only on the speaker. — Dave Newton, Aug 25 '14 at 19:12
None of those examples appear to match the question. They don't involve calling something a different name, but instead prefacing a statement with a qualifier. Nearly all of the answers here are for the question in the title, not the one implied by the examples. — DCShannon, Aug 26 '14 at 00:30
Especially the first one. Unless you hang around with a particularly poisonous group of people, it's likely to be used truthfully from time to time. The second one surely is too cliched to be used unironically or as a genuine attempt to nuance something that the speaker acknowledges is arguably racist. The third is merely a statement that no respect is due (since whatever follows will show none) ;-) — Steve Jessop, Aug 26 '14 at 09:09
The 1st and 3rd examples don't seem to be in the same category as the 2nd one. They can actually change the essence of the statement, whereas the 2nd one is just an attempt to cover one's ass, even in the most sincere example. — TylerH, Aug 26 '14 at 15:40
"I'm not racist, but..." doesn't mean that they're racist. Actually, by accusing them of being racist just because they may use that phrase, you're basically doing what all racist people do! Saying all people of a given race are bad [based off of a few bad experiences]. LOL. The hypocrisy! — jay_t55, Aug 27 '14 at 04:09
@baeltazor "I'm not racist, but..." Almost invariably prefaces a blatantly racist statement, and pointing out that a statement is racist is not even remotely equivalent to institutional racism. But thanks for playing, here's a paper flower. — Shadur-don't-feed-the-AI, Aug 29 '14 at 05:24
@baeltazor A slightly more honest version of that phrase would be "I don't want to sound racist, but..." Unfortunately for the speaker, you don't always get what you want. — Shadur-don't-feed-the-AI, Aug 29 '14 at 05:31
"With all due respect..." on the other hand can be positive. Sure, it's often used sarcastically to imply that you don't think they're due any respect, but it can also be shorthand for "I have a great deal of respect for you, but even so I have an urgent need to question the decision you just made and there's no time to spend on all the tactful niceties..." — Shadur-don't-feed-the-AI, Aug 29 '14 at 13:51
Dutch saying: "Al draagt een aap een gouden ring, het is en blijft een lelijk ding." Literal translation: Even if a monkey wears a golden ring, it will still be an ugly creature. Meaning: Even if you make something visually appealing, if it's horrible inside, that will not change. English equivalent: 'You cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear". ~ http://thosesillydutch.blogspot.be/2007/08/al-draagt-een-aap-een-gouden-ring.html — BlueCacti, Aug 31 '14 at 13:58

Edwin Ashworth · Answer 1 · 2014-08-25T16:25:18.203

65

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. [Shakespeare]

(What matters is what something is, not what it is called. [Phrase Finder] )

Possibly inappropriate for an attempted cover-up.

If the focus is on the attempt to disguise what's about to follow,

sugaring the pill

fits:

sugar/sweeten the pill (British, American & Australian) also sugar-coat the pill (American)

to [attempt to] make something bad seem less unpleasant The government have cut income tax to sweeten the pill of a tough budget.

[Cambridge Idioms Dictionary, 2nd ed.]

edited Aug 25 '14 at 16:25

answered Aug 25 '14 at 14:48

Edwin Ashworth

83,272

9

I forget where I heard it, but an alternative is "A rose by any other name would still have thorns." – nsayer Aug 26 '14 at 06:10
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In Impolite company one might use "A shite by any other name still stinks" – Tom Page Aug 26 '14 at 18:53
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I hear sugar coating most often – Ruan Mendes Aug 26 '14 at 19:03
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We just call it sugarcoating. If there is one word for what the OP asked, this would be it. – ADTC Aug 27 '14 at 23:58
@Edwin Ashworth, I enjoyed your answer to this question very much. Since you garnered the most votes for your answer, I would appreciate your opinion on the answer I just posted, which connects via your "sugaring the pill" suggestion. Wish I had been here in August to enjoy this conversation! – ScotM Dec 23 '14 at 08:31
Or, "A rose is a rose is a rose." – Hot Licks Sep 16 '16 at 12:12

score 56 · Answer 2 · answered Aug 25 '14 at 16:21

56

"You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipstick_on_a_pig

Seems perfect for your requirements but perhaps a little too colloquial.

answered Aug 25 '14 at 16:21

Charon

9,036

5

Similar: you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. – Casey Aug 25 '14 at 18:03
Actually, that last one is usually stated backward. You do make a silk purse out of a sows ear. And then some aspect of your presentation challenges anyone to call you on your definition of silk -- your excessive hopefulness, your inveterate poverty, your overblown folksiness etc... So you get away with it. – Jon Jay Obermark Aug 25 '14 at 20:59
But 'Don't put lipstick on a pig!' is not very colloquial AFAICT, I think it is likely to be understood widely. – Jon Jay Obermark Aug 26 '14 at 19:09
@JonJayObermark: I don't think i've ever heard it used exactly that way; it sounds kinda odd as a metaphor. The phrase "lipstick on a pig" can still conjure up images of ridiculous fanciness, though, even to people who have never heard the saying. (As long as they know what lipstick and pigs are.) – cHao Aug 28 '14 at 14:22
Or my own personal favourite version: You can put lipstick on a pulldog, but she’s still Sarah Palin. (Warning: link contains NSFW language and pictures.) – Janus Bahs Jacquet Dec 23 '14 at 11:10

Dan Bron · Answer 3 · 2016-09-16T12:45:51.523

34

Do you like Shakespeare? If so, how about "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet", or, shorter these days, "A rose is a rose is a rose."

If you're not a big fan of the Bard, consider "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...".

edited Sep 16 '16 at 12:45

answered Aug 25 '14 at 14:50

Dan Bron

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for sure, re "give something a different name". I can't quite think of one, to say in response to someone "supposedly weakening something with a non-heartfelt disclaimer"... – Fattie Aug 25 '14 at 15:09
4

A rose is a rose is a rose is not Shakespeare but Stein. – StoneyB on hiatus Aug 25 '14 at 15:11
@Stoney, I know (I'm just equating the two idioms). – Dan Bron Aug 25 '14 at 15:20
@StoneyB Stein? I thought Bacon wrote Shakespeare? – Edwin Ashworth Aug 25 '14 at 18:38
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@EdwinAshworth Bacon wrote Robert Shakespeare. William Shakespeare was written by the Earl of Essex. You can tell the difference by the fact that only one of them knew how to spell. – StoneyB on hiatus Aug 25 '14 at 18:39
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Shakespeare ate Bacon. – Matt Gutting Aug 25 '14 at 19:19
... and chewed out ham actors. – Edwin Ashworth Aug 26 '14 at 09:11
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The problem here is that the examples he gives do not 'smell sweet', they reek of pretense and evasion instead. – Jon Jay Obermark Aug 26 '14 at 19:07
I dont get the *"A rose is a rose is a rose."* one... – domokun Aug 27 '14 at 11:29
1

That phrase uses redundancy to reinforce the concept of "it is what it is (what it is)", or out another way, "it isn't anything else" (and implicitly, here, "...no matter what you call it"). – Dan Bron Aug 27 '14 at 11:31
Interestingly, "duck typing" is an idiom in computing referring to a computer language where the "type" of a variable is defined primarily by how it behaves dynamically, vs by it's static definition. – Hot Licks Sep 16 '16 at 12:14
@HotLicks Post updated, just for you. – Dan Bron Sep 16 '16 at 12:46
+1. I like the duck idiom. However, the aptness of any answer depends largely on what comes AFTER the ellipses in the OP's examples. Don't you agree? Don – rhetorician Oct 04 '17 at 00:57

score 28 · Answer 4 · answered Aug 25 '14 at 15:04

28

Abraham Lincoln (apocryphally) was fond of asking "How many legs does a horse have, if you call its tail a leg?"

His answer: "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."

answered Aug 25 '14 at 15:04

Jim Mack

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Two people who have been mentioned in this thread, Lincoln and Churchill, have notoriously large numbers of quotations attributed to them which are either false, exaggerated, or originate from another source. – WS2 Aug 25 '14 at 16:19
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"You can't believe everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln... http://www.brainguidance.com/abraham-lincoln-quotes-images/abraham-lincoln-authenticity-internet-quotes-315040/ – stephenbayer Aug 25 '14 at 16:23
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@stephenbayer Yeah, that's what "apocryphally" means. – lily Aug 27 '14 at 03:22
I heard it was Mark Twain -- but then, I heard that on the Internet :-) – Carl Witthoft Aug 27 '14 at 15:19
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Apparently, Lincoln was quoting an existing phrase and using it to illustrate that calling a man "free" does not make him so. So while he did not coin the phrase, he did use it. – Erick Robertson Aug 28 '14 at 21:33
@WS2 So how many notable things did Lincoln and Churchill say if we call those attributed to them notable? – Joshua Taylor Aug 30 '14 at 20:26
@JoshuaTaylor if you look at the Wiki entry on Churchill it lists many of his disputed and wrongly attributed quotations. There may be something similar for Lincoln. But I know they have both been vastly misquoted. – WS2 Aug 30 '14 at 20:38
@WS2 I know they've both been misquoted; it was just an attempt at a humorous parallel to Lincoln's purported "How many legs does a horse have, if you call its tail a leg?" I.e., "How many things did they say if you call these things that they didn't say things that they said?" – Joshua Taylor Aug 30 '14 at 21:45
The correct answer is, of course, 'I wouldn't call its tail a leg. I'm not a politician.' – Edwin Ashworth Dec 23 '14 at 09:49
2

@CarlWitthoft -- It was definitely Twain -- I actually saw his tweet. – Hot Licks Apr 09 '15 at 21:35

score 27 · Answer 5 · edited Aug 26 '14 at 00:49

27

Call a spade a spade.

It has the advantage of being a direct command.

'Spade' is a more specific word for the digging implement most people own, which often called by the less specific word 'shovel' by those unaccustomed to digging (and thus of higher class). It is also very occasionally used to mean 'Black'.

It disparages political correctness, choosing longer words over shorter ones, and speaking class-consciously.

edited Aug 26 '14 at 00:49

SevenSidedDie

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answered Aug 25 '14 at 20:25

Jon Jay Obermark

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I'd be careful against using this in certain places. As the answerer states "It is also very occasionally used to mean 'Black'.". What's not said is that on these occasions it's typically derogatory. Chalk another one up for the minefield that is political correctness. – noonand Aug 27 '14 at 15:40
Right, but the whole point of the phrases existence, even before it ever had any racial overtone at all, is not to bow to political correctness. – Jon Jay Obermark Aug 27 '14 at 15:43
Somewhat ironic, I know ;-) – noonand Aug 27 '14 at 15:45
I kinda thought the "spade" idiom was related to (or derived from) what is done to pet cats and dogs to make them incapable of reproduction. As Bob Barker would say, "Be sure to spay or neuter your pets" (or something to that effect). A person who "tells it like it is," with little if any concern about propriety, would think nothing of saying, "My cat is spayed," as opposed to the more genteel "My cat is fixed," or "My cat is incapable of being fruitful and multiplying"! To the former person, spayed is spayed, so why pussyfoot around (pun kind of intended). – rhetorician Oct 04 '17 at 01:09

score 18 · Answer 6 · answered Aug 25 '14 at 16:48

18

My dear sainted grandmother was very fond of the expression "You can't polish a turd" which is a somewhat vulgar variant of @Okoning's "lipstick on a pig".

Idiomatically, someone who claims that 'they aren't racist but...' could well be accused of "turd polishing..."

answered Aug 25 '14 at 16:48

Richard

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Didn't the Mythbusters test that one? – GalacticCowboy Aug 25 '14 at 18:15
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@GalacticCowboy - http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/polishing-a-turd-minimyth.htm – Richard Aug 25 '14 at 18:16
Just commenting to validate this phrase does have legit usage! I've heard it used more than once. – DukeZhou Jun 28 '18 at 20:01

score 13 · Answer 7 · answered Aug 25 '14 at 15:40

My favorite: "A distinction without a difference."

"To-may-to, to-mah-to." (In English the word "tomato" can be pronounced either way, it's the same ~~vegetable~~ ~~fruit~~ berry.)

I'd suggest "terminological inexactitude", but now that I look it up, I find that my idea of its origin was not quite right. Winston Churchill coined it, but I thought he was referring to someone's use of the phrase "protected workers" to describe people who were, plainly, slaves. Used that way it's a beautiful euphemism for a euphemism (you're not calling them slaves, and I'm not calling you a liar). But now I find that he was actually arguing the other way, saying that it's wrong to use "slavery" referring to people who have voluntarily entered a temporary state of paid servitude. (As often happens with quotes, I like the false legend better than the true history.)

There are other expressions and quotations suited to particular kinds of self-contradiction or false disclaimer, e.g. "With all due respect, mind your own damned business.", "The honourable gentleman is a scurvy cur."

+1 Personally, "To-may-to, to-mah-to" is the only suggestion on this page that I would actually use in general conversation (and expect that people know what I mean). — wavemode, Aug 25 '14 at 17:29

score 13 · Answer 8 · answered Aug 25 '14 at 15:50

13

While you are looking for an idiom, the examples you give seem to be a mild form of apophasis, a form of irony

a rhetorical device wherein the speaker or writer brings up a subject by either denying it, or denying that it should be brought up [Wikipedia]

One of the most famous quotes is that of Shakespeare's Marc Antony

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

Your examples are disingenuous denials.

answered Aug 25 '14 at 15:50

bib

72,782

This is one of those times I wish I could forfeit upvotes on 10 other answers so I could upvote one answer (this one) ten times. – Dan Bron Aug 25 '14 at 21:02
This is more procatalepsis than paralipsis/apophasis. The former refutes an objection in advance, the latter means to draw attention to the very thing it ostensibly excludes from discussion. – pilcrow Aug 26 '14 at 16:47
@pilcrow I like it! Make it an answer. – bib Aug 26 '14 at 17:17
@bib, you got it! – pilcrow Aug 26 '14 at 17:36
@jmoreno, that's not how bounties work. – Dan Bron Aug 31 '14 at 21:44
@jmoreno, nothing about bounties allows me to add additional upvotes to this answer to this question. – Dan Bron Sep 01 '14 at 00:45
@DanBron: if you put a bounty on this question, you will be able to manually award it to any answer (including this one). Additionally, this question will show that it has been awarded a bounty. Not exactly the equivalent of multiple up votes, but close. The answerer gets the rep, and readers can see that it was deemed very useful by someone... – jmoreno Jul 17 '15 at 15:32

Brillig · Answer 9 · 2014-08-27T14:02:03.430

I see a couple of people mentioned Shakespeare, but if you want to quote Shakespeare you should say "What's in a name? A rose by any other word would smell as sweet." If you say "by any other name" you're quoting one of his folio editor's mistakes.

There are a number of animals that have been used for these sort of metaphors that are in in some cases idioms. The oldest is derived from the Bible (changing one's skin/spots/stripes). There are a number of expressions related to pigs tracing back to the 16th century, but picking up variety in the 1900s American rural communities and recently adopted by a number of politicians. There is a famous expression related to ducks which began with the anti-communist fever in the post-war 1940s (despite a typical misleading reference from Wikopedia). Finally there are animals which the smell of indicates detecting deception or falsehood, like smelling a rat or fish.

leopards/tigers/zebras/Ethiopeans

1) “Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?” (Jeremiah 13:23)

2) "the tiger cannot change its stripes"

3) "a zebra cannot change its stripes"

sources include: The American Heritage® Idioms Dictionary

hog/pig

1) "You can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear" (from mid 16th century)

2) "A hog in armour is still but a hog" (Thomas Fuller 1732)

3) "A hog in a silk waistcoat is still a hog" (Charles H. Spurgeon in his 1887 compendium of proverbs, The Salt-Cellars)

4) "You can educate a pig but all you get is an educated pig" (I heard this old phrase used in Texas)

5) "Never try to teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig." (Robert A. Heinlein's 1973 novel Time Enough for Love)

6) "like putting lipstick on a pig" (Washington Post 1985)

7) "put lipstick on a hog and call it a princess" (Ann Richards 1991)

8) "You can put lipstick on a hog and call it Monique, but it is still a pig" (Ann Richards 1992)

9) "You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig" (Barrack Obama 2008)

10) "Just weighing a pig doesn't fatten it" (Barrack Obama 2009, which he said he heard in Illinois rural communities)

Sources include: Slate and PiFactoryBlog

duck

"when I see a bird that quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, has feathers and webbed feet and associates with ducks—I’m certainly going to assumer that he IS a duck." (Emil Mazey 1946)

"When someone walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, he’s a duck." (James Carey 1948)

"When you see a bird that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck." (attributed to Walter Winchell 1951)

Source include: barrypopik.com

smell a fish/rat/fault

1) "Do you smell a fault?" (King Lear)

2) "smell a rat" (June 1851 in the County Courts Chronicle newspaper)

"Two other cases the witness mentioned, in the first of which he alleged that the judge, in reference to an insufficiency of evidence said, 'I smell a rat; I don't believe the defendant or her witness.'"

3) "smells fishy"

sources include: knowyourphrase.com

LOL! I agee. Thanks for pointing this out and I corrected the spelling from small to smell. I am not the world's greatest typist. — Brillig, Aug 27 '14 at 14:03

score 8 · Answer 10 · edited Apr 13 '17 at 12:38

Don't spit on my cupcakes and call it frosting!

Your spit is not icing, and I won't let you convince me it is!

She says: I mean this as constructive criticism, not an insult, but ...
You feel: Did she just insult me and try to call it "constructive criticism?"

He says: I'm not racist, but ...
You feel: Did he just make a racist comment and try to call it "not racist?"

He says: With all due respect ...
You feel: Did she just disrespect me and try to call it "all due respect?"

In all three situations, the appropriate response is to draw attention to their disingenuous labeling: Don't spit on my cupcakes and call it frosting! Right here in 2011, AlexG offered an excellent explanation of that idiom in its various iterations, showing that it satisfies this query perfectly. In summary:

The nuance of the expression is that something bad is being presented as something good, and the speaker is aware of this.

Various images have employed this of this formula for an entire generation:

In 1976, Clint Eastwood starred in the movie, Outlaw Josey Wales. He delivered a few of his signature zingers in that movie, but John Vernon, who played Fletcher, delivered a most memorable line. The link plays, better than the lines read.

Senator: The war's over. Our side won the war. Now we must busy ourselves winning the peace...

Fletcher: There's another old saying, Senator: Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.

It's not sweet rain; it's vile piss! Applying Fletcher's sentiment to the OP's examples:

Don't piss on me with insults and call it the rain of constructive criticism!

Don't piss on me with racist remarks and say your not a racist!

Don't piss on me with contempt and call it the rain of all due respect!

The are multiple iterations of the image.
Don't piss/pee on/down/in . my:

boots...
leg...
back...
head...
ear...
face...

and tell me it's raining."

I'm comfortable with that word picture as it is, but pop singer Rudy D'Agostino softened the blow by singing:

Don't spit in my face and tell me it's raining.

Finally, the ever articulate Judge Judy transformed it to:

"Don't spit on my cupcakes and call it frosting."

Conclusion:
It's not sweet; it's disgusting! In view of the OP's particular examples, I believe the image of sweetness would work best.

"Don't spit on my cupcakes and call it frosting."

But you can decide what works best for you.

These may well be appropriate repartees, but that's not exactly what OP asked for ('a way to idiomatically express the sentiment that just because you give something a different name, or precede it with a disclaimer, it doesn't change what it is'). — Edwin Ashworth, Dec 23 '14 at 09:58

score 6 · Answer 11 · answered Aug 26 '14 at 17:34

This is procatalepsis, the refuting of anticipated objections, according to Brigham Young's excellent Silva Rhetoricae.

In the examples given by the OP, the refutations are quite crude — really just ad lapidem — but I think this rhetorical figure fits the bill.

score 0 · Answer 12 · answered Sep 17 '16 at 22:21

0

The one I have heard that I use in the right company only is:

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

answered Sep 17 '16 at 22:21

Kris

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score -1 · Answer 13 · answered Aug 29 '14 at 11:11

-1

Has anyone mentioned:

No matter what...

As in..

No matter what you say xyz is still true...

Or

xyz is still true, no matter what you say

answered Aug 29 '14 at 11:11

user43251

259

Idiom for "just because you give something a different name, it doesn't change what it is"

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