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I mean, it’s not like there is a tuna vegetable or some kind of non-fish animal also named tuna that the fish can be confused with.

tchrist
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mgb
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  • Er, a fish is an animal. But I get what you meant. ;) And to add a non-serious answer, the tunafish we get from the store tastes so little like fish that we probably wouldn't realize what it was if it wasn't on the packaging. – MrHen Apr 05 '11 at 21:12
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    @MrHen, and 'fish' is the worst taxonomic term there is. Can't find the quote but there is something from Stephen Gould about "there is no such thing as a fish" – mgb Apr 05 '11 at 21:24
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    Who said we did? – HaL Apr 05 '11 at 21:27
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    For the same reason we say "cheddar cheese" ;) – Kevin Apr 05 '11 at 21:27
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    @Kevin - americans say chedder cheese in the hope that you will believe them that their stuff is cheese. – mgb Apr 05 '11 at 23:00
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    Of course, “tuna” IS a fruit http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tuna – nohat Apr 05 '11 at 23:17
  • Well, obviously it's so people don't get confused thinking that Americans are always tuning their musical instruments. –  Apr 05 '11 at 21:34
  • Most Americans do not say "tuna fish" (e.g. Ngrams). Most commonly it is used when talking to children. – mgkrebbs Apr 06 '11 at 02:19
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    "You can tune a file system, but you can't tuna fish." BSD 4.2 man page for tunefs – mgb Apr 06 '11 at 02:38
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    @mgb: I wouldn't be so sure about the lack of confusion: Chicken of the Sea. – Callithumpian Apr 06 '11 at 04:14
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    @mgb - At least we can spell cheddar. – Kevin Apr 06 '11 at 13:41
  • @Kevin - if only you could make it ;-) ps. Real cheese shouldn't bend, or come in a spray can ! – mgb Apr 06 '11 at 13:49
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    @mgb. Don't know where you were eating, but the cheddar I use doesn't bend or come in a spray can. – Kevin Apr 06 '11 at 15:03
  • @Kevin - Houston, where assault rifles are compulsory but Brie is banned – mgb Apr 06 '11 at 15:48
  • @Kevin - Do you know where Cheddar is? – Calum Apr 18 '11 at 06:59
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    @Calum. In my fridge, of course ;) Or did you mean the village in England? – Kevin Apr 18 '11 at 13:16
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    I think it's versus tuna sandwich, tuna salad, tuna flavor, a can of tuna. Tuna is almost always used for the meat/taste of that fish, while if you add "fish" you mean the sea animal made of tuna. – SF. Nov 25 '12 at 18:48
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    Saying "tuna fish" is like ordering a "ham pig" sandwich, or asking for a "banana fruit" –  Mar 27 '14 at 19:31
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    Proper pronunciation is tunafish rather than tuna fish. – Wayfaring Stranger Sep 03 '15 at 19:21
  • The use of tuna fish versus tuna is used more in the southern states than other areas of the country. –  Sep 03 '15 at 16:46
  • Tuna fish ATM machine pizza pie added bonus end result – Devsman Oct 25 '16 at 13:14
  • @nohat a) I've never heard of a tuna cactus, b) knowing that tuna cactus is native to tropical America it makes sense for those in the region to clarify which tuna they are referring to - although I can't imagine a tuna cactus sandwich tasting very good, it's good to be specific. I think you might actually have hit on the answer, certainly one I'd rather accept... care to post it as one? – Bohemian Feb 27 '17 at 16:34
  • None of the answers actually address the OP's question about why. Not to say that it is possible, just that they didn't bother. Presumably in non AmE situations, there is only 'tuna'. Does OED give 'tunafish' as 'chiefly American' and some quotes from the 19thc? – Mitch Aug 06 '18 at 20:57

7 Answers7

21

I agree with you that it does seem redundant. However, this is common with other kinds of fish as well. Many people say "codfish" instead of "cod". Here is a recipe for "trout fish" croquets.

This convention has important meaning to a huge number of fish names: catfish, lionfish, swordfish, sunfish, cowfish, etc.

Also, it provides extra clarification for someone who wouldn't know what a "tuna" or a "cod" is otherwise. Anyone learning English as a second language will probably learn the meaning of "fish" early on, but may not know the more specific names.

dbyrne
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    Apart from swordfish - which I suppose does need extra context I only every heard it for tuna. There is Lutefisk but that's the dish not the fish – mgb Apr 05 '11 at 23:01
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    Many names for fish have alternate, often older meanings in English, e.g., cod (meaning "bag"), trout (meaning "curdle" or "coagulate"), sardine (a precious stone), carp (meaning "discourse"), and obviously cat/lion/sword/sun/cow/snapper/flounder/monk/sole. – ESultanik Jun 20 '11 at 19:10
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    @Esultanik: wow, four new (to me) meanings in one comment! I hope you're not joking. – Tim Lymington Aug 08 '11 at 11:01
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    @TimLymington: No joke! Etymology is Serious Business! Some of those meanings have been obsolesced, though, so you may not want to add them to your everyday lexicon. – ESultanik Aug 08 '11 at 14:36
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    -1 Have to disagree. Plus, cat, lion, sword, sun, or cow are not parts of a phrase with 'fish' but integral prefixes. So, you can't ever just say cat, lion, ... the without fish to mean that. It's not that fish provides extra (redundant) clarification, it is tuna that modifies fish. There are contexts where you are talking about fish and want to mention a certain type, say, tuna -- here, the adjective is a contextual addition, not the subject per se. More in favor of tuna fish if this were not a comment. – Kris Nov 25 '12 at 13:04
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    @Esultanik It appears that cod (the fish) and cod (the bag) are different words, homographs (and homophones). I know of sard; this and sardine also have different etymologies. As do your two carp's. It would be better to explain this than to say 'Many names for fish have alternate, often older meanings in English'. – Edwin Ashworth Nov 21 '15 at 15:21
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    You logic is flawed. If you take the "fish" away from the other fish you claim are relevant, you're left with cat, lion, sword, sun and cow, none of which have any relevant to fish. If you take "fish" away from "Tuna fish", you're left with the very same species... Tuna. Clearly, the "fish" in "tuna fish" adds no value, as there is no other kind of tuna. – Bohemian Feb 08 '17 at 11:02
  • While the question is a good one, the OP should bear in mind that just saying "tuna" is correct, too, so the "fish" as colloquially included may be redundant, but it's also not necessary. In other words, both of these are equally correct: (1) I'll take a tuna sandwich on rye. (2) I'll take a tuna fish sandwich on rye. (If you want to be even more colloquial, you'd omit both "fish" and "sandwich" and say, "I'll take a tuna on rye.") – JoshG Aug 06 '18 at 19:21
16

Tuna or cod is not always fish, just as cheddar is not always cheese.

In both cases, it distinguishes the primary item from items merely flavored with the item.

Tuna fish is almost always the meat of the Tuna. Seldom is it the fish itself alive and/or whole; for those uses, "tuna" is used without "fish." Tuna salad is a mixture of tuna and mayonaise, and often some diced pickles and/or onions. Tuna sandwiches are sandwiches using tuna, and can be grilled or tuna salad. Tuna crackers are tuna flavored crackers. Tuna alone also can be a crude aphorism for female genitalia.

Cheddar is both the cheese, and the city where the recipe originates. Several cheeses are likewise named for their place of origin, most notably swiss, münster, and berkswell. But cheddar crackers are not made of cheddar, nor do they originate in cheddar, but are flavored with cheddar cheese. Cheddar spread is mostly cheddar cheese,

Cod can be the fish, or the meat of the fish; a cod dinner is seldom just codfish, but usually also chips (fries) and/or hushpuppies (corn fritters). The USS Cod is a submarine. Cod is also an extremely common acronym, most commonly for "Cash on Delivery." Codpiece is a male pubic covering; cod at one point was slang for the scrotum, so codfish was a way of ensuring one was talking about fish and not men's genitals.

Speaking of corn fritters, I've never met a fritter that wasn't made with cornmeal; I'm TOLD they exist... Likewise, most have also wheat flour and whole kernel corn. It's another case of a term that at first appears to be redundant, but really isn't.

aramis
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  • hushpuppies definitely need more adornment, had there been no (cord fritters) I would have thought that it would be made from a young canine. – Lie Ryan Sep 07 '11 at 06:51
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    It really depends on the word. We don't call it Champagne wine or Cologne perfume. You might call it cheddar cheese out of context but if you asked for a slice of Cheddar, it would be unlikely you wanted a strip of the city! I never knew that tuna was also a cactus fruit; to me it is always the edible flesh of one of the types of fish called tuna (bluefin, yellowfin, etc.) unless it is disambiguated by context. – CJ Dennis Dec 06 '14 at 02:02
  • But 'tuna fish bake' also exists as a usage. 'Tuna bake' is used because it is more snappy. – Edwin Ashworth Nov 21 '15 at 15:24
  • @EdwinAshworth There's also the issue that the other uses of Tuna don't make much sense in a bake, tho' I've seen college students bake crackers into casseroles... – aramis Dec 02 '15 at 00:21
  • I've only ever heard Americans call it a "tuna fish sandwich", never a "tuna sandwich". – Bohemian Feb 08 '17 at 11:04
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    I have, @Bohemian. I've even done so myself, and my passport says "US Citizen"... – aramis Feb 13 '17 at 21:24
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    @Bohemian One of the things people often forget is that American English isn't one monolithic thing. If you go to different regions even sometimes in the same state, they refer to things by different names. FWIW, where I grew up people used both interchangeably. – Tim Seguine Feb 27 '17 at 15:05
  • This logic is just silly. Cheddar sandwich will never mean bread with "the city where the recipe originates". Tuna sandwich will never mean a sandwich with "the fish itself alive and/or whole". – tmaj Mar 08 '21 at 00:43
12

As a fisherman I can tell you that:

"Tuna-fish" refers to the stuff in a can that is used to make tuna-fish salads or similar items. It is typically albacore.

"Tuna" refers to the the meat in steak form and served raw (as sushi/sashimi), grilled, or pan seared. It is typically yellow-fin or blue-fin.

Other fish such as catfish, swordfish, lionfish, etc. obviously need the fish qualifier as a cat, sword, and lion as stand alone words are completely different things. Also, while there is a tuna cactus (it is the fruit part) it most commonly referred to as the prickly pear cactus.

Below the first picture is "tuna-fish" and the second picture is "tuna". Tuna is perhaps the only fish where preparations are this vastly different.

"Tuna-fish"

Tuna

Skooba
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    I agree with your assessment of the use of "tuna fish" vs "tuna". But what are your thoughts on why one is called "tuna fish"? I never hear canned chicken referred to as "chicken bird". – Trevor D Sep 03 '16 at 21:02
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    Only because I've never heard of the distinction before, can you supply dictionary definitions which support this differentiation? – Mitch Aug 06 '18 at 20:53
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    @Mitch, it's in the OED. See my answer below for the entry, if you don't have access. – lly Aug 07 '18 at 15:41
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    @Mitch I'm not sure any dictionary would support it, the distinction is colloquial. If I told you to come over for a tuna dinner, and you were expecting what is in the bottom picture but received the top picture.... – Skooba Aug 07 '18 at 16:42
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    It's far from the only fish with such divergent serving options. Salmon has the same - salmon steaks, canned salmon, salmon jerky, wet-smoked salmon, dry-smoked salmon, salmon soaked in seal oil, smoked salmon softened in seal oil... Some of those are hard for white-folk to do, but are standard in Yupiq and Inupiaq communities. I've never encountered tuna in seal oil. – aramis Apr 26 '21 at 01:24
6

Tuna is used to mean the fish, and the flesh of that fish (which is also called tuna fish).

Tuna is also the edible fruit of a cactus, or the name of that cactus.

apaderno
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5

Just to back up Skooba's correct answer, the OED entry for “tuna fish” is precisely

tuna fish n. the flesh of the tunny as food.

with its earliest citation given as

1917 M[ary] Green Better Meals [for Less Money] xvi. 130 (heading)

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://i.stack.imgur.com/KfFs9.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.stack.imgur.com/KfFs9.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>
</blockquote>

Wikipedia's article on tuna similarly glosses

When tuna is canned and packaged for sale, the product is sometimes called tuna fish.

noting that the US legally restricts “white meat tuna” to referencing albacore and not yellowfin, bluefin, &c.

It's also worth noting that Albert Halfhill & his followers completely altered the flavor of tuna while trying to keep his cannery in business through a collapse of the sardine fishery off California in 1903. He tried to reverse engineer some Italian tuna canning methods, removing the fish oil and replacing it with salad oil, but went on to treat the result with compressed steam. The white meat that process produced—the stuff Americans mean when they talk about “tuna fish” and a very different thing from tuna steak or sashimi—had such a chicken-like consistency that tuna exploded in popularity in the US and even a century later still famously got confused with chicken on national television.

lly
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3

I think of tuna fish as the chopped up stuff in a can.

Tuna, on the other hand, I think of as whole fish.

Nonnal
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Paul J
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1

I think the reason cheese gets appended to Cheddar much more often than to Double Gloucester, Brie, Camembert, Wensleydale etc. is because it's the most common type. The archetypal cheese, as cod is the archetypal fish. (and I've heard codfish, but not haddockfish or salmonfish). And in UK at least, tuna is the most common canned fish.

As an archetype, it often thus gets to represent not just it's own particular type, but all cheeses. After a restaurant meal I might ask for some Cheddar Cheese - I may not really care which cheese I get, but most likely if they have any, they'll have that. If they do have alternatives I'll doubtless be offered them, but I'd be irritated by a waiter who included cheesecake in the offerings after I'd asked for Cheddar Cheese.

FumbleFingers
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