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I heard this in a science lecture.

Is this a correct use of the word "never"? I'm not a native English speaker, but for me, "never" means we know that there's is no point in time (past, present or future) when it is true. "Until" means that there may be a point in the future when something changes from false to true (or vice versa). From that standpoint, "never" means that there can be no "until", or am I missing something?

basteln
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2 Answers2

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Never does not have to be absolute. For example, when you say,

I will never drink again.

You don't mean that "there is no such point in time (past, present, or future)". This never refers only to the future. When you say

I have never travelled by train

This never refers only to the past.

In your example, indeed there will be no time within the time frame [now, t] where you will have x. t is the point of time where you can do y.

Armen Ծիրունյան
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  • Oh I see. So "never" can be constrained by words like "will" (only future), "have" (only past), "since" ([t, now]) or "until" ([now, t]). – basteln Nov 09 '14 at 11:01
  • @basteln: Yes, indeed. I am very curious about what your native language is, because in all the languages I am more or less familiar with, never has the same property as in English. – Armen Ծիրունյան Nov 09 '14 at 11:03
  • I'm german. Now that I think about it, we have "relaxed" forms of "never" (= "nie" in german), too: "nie mehr" (since), "nie wieder" (only future, lit. "never again"). We use those for things that we do, like drinking or travelling. But for states like: "We'll never have peace until we can put aside our differences", you wouldn't use "never" in german; you would say "not … until". In english, if I understand you correctly, "never" would be correct in that sentence? – basteln Nov 09 '14 at 11:33
  • @basteln: You don't have to use never in that sentence. It is equivalen to to "We will not have x until we have y", just more emphatic. – Armen Ծիրունյան Nov 09 '14 at 11:39
  • Oh ok! Actually what I just wrote isn't correct…it's not really about doing vs. a state. It's hard to come up with rules for things we do intuitively ;-) You can use "nie" for the whole past and the whole future, because then it's unconstrained. You can use it for [t, now], because you are certain that it actually didn't happen in reality. For [now, t], it would be overly emphatic, because you're not certain enough to justify the use of such a strong word. – basteln Nov 09 '14 at 11:45
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Use of "never" with a meaning of "possibly" --

"I will never speak to her again, unless she apologizes."

This is the same as:

"I will speak to her again, but only if she apologizes."

In regular conversation in English, "never" is quite flexible.

"I never go out on a weeknight, unless I have a class."

user8356
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