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Native North American speaker here. It's fairly common in certain British dialects to substitute "me" for "my" (Shiver me timbers) in informal speech.

My impression is that some speakers mix the two.

What are the descriptive rules for selecting between the two variants?

Specifically, I'm asking about usage of

A non-standard variant of my (particularly in British dialects) is me. (This may have its origins in the fact that in Middle English my before a consonant was pronounced [mi:], like modern English me, (while me was [me:], similar to modern may) and this was shortened to [mi] or [mɪ], as the pronouns he and we are nowadays; [hi wɒz] he was; versus [ɪt wɒz hi:] it was he. As this vowel was short, it was not subject to the Great Vowel Shift, and so emerged in modern English unchanged.)

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_personal_pronouns#Archaic_and_non-standard)

As an example, here is an excerpt from the character Daisy in Downton Abbey:

DAISY
Someone walked over me grave.

(https://scriptline.livejournal.com/43860.html)

Someone please supply a video clip of this speech pattern. I'm sure it can be found, but I can't.

Scott - Слава Україні
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ThePopMachine
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  • Are you referring to this? http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/31437/me-being-versus-my-being –  May 21 '15 at 19:19
  • @Josh61: No, that is a totally different case, where the choice of (pronoun + present participle) or (possessive pronoun + gerund) are both grammatical. I'm talking about direct substitution of "me" for "my". – ThePopMachine May 21 '15 at 19:24
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    @Josh61: I think OP refers only to the (regional) pronunciation of my as me, in which case there are no rules for it, at least within the scope of this site: perhaps Linguistics.SE could help. – Tim Lymington May 21 '15 at 19:24
  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_personal_pronouns#Archaic_and_non-standard_forms

    "A non-standard variant of my (particularly in British dialects) is me. (This may have its origins in the fact that in Middle English my before a consonant was pronounced [mi:], like modern English me, (while me was [me:], similar to modern may) and this was shortened to [mi] or [mɪ], as the pronouns he and we are nowadays; [hi wɒz] he was; versus [ɪt wɒz hi:] it was he. As this vowel was short, it was not subject to the Great Vowel Shift, and so emerged in modern English unchanged.)"

     – ThePopMachine May 21 '15 at 19:26
  • @TimLymington: How is that not a usage issue? I think it's pretty clear cut. – ThePopMachine May 21 '15 at 19:27
  • @ThePopMachine - isn't Wiki extract clear enough -- what sort of usage rules are you looking for? –  May 21 '15 at 19:35
  • Especially in Pirate Speak, I've always taken it as a West-Country m shema, for 'my'. – Hugh May 21 '15 at 19:38
  • @Josh61: I'm asking if there's some way to understand how a speaker (subconsciously) selects between the two. For example, maybe it is always "my" at the beginning of a sentence and when emphasizing. Maybe it alters if the next word begins with a vowel sound. Maybe it is related only to register of speech, and people would always say "me" unless they are trying to speak formally. I don't know -- I'm speculating here. – ThePopMachine May 21 '15 at 19:39
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    I can't speak for the US, but it seems to me (unstressed) *my* reduces to /mə/ or /mɪ/ virtually everywhere in the UK, apart from Scotland, where they're more likely to use /mæ/. The Scottish version is usually written mah, which everyone understands as nothing more than an attempt to replicate the actual sound. It's just that the more widespread versions are usually written as me in "eye dialect", causing some people to assume that represents a different actual word being used. But I agree with you - it's really just a different pronunciation for the word my. – FumbleFingers May 21 '15 at 19:40
  • Not a good source, but people should read this to understand what I'm describing.

    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=9572

     – ThePopMachine May 21 '15 at 19:44
  • You could equally ask how a Texan decides whether to use mah or my. A technical explanation would involve isoglosses and migration patterns: for most people the answer is "They don't". – Tim Lymington May 21 '15 at 20:10
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    @TimLymington While people don't consciously decide how to speak, they're often consistent about how they use words, and some underlying rules can often be discerned by analyzing the patterns. It's these unconscious decisions I think he's asking about. – Barmar May 21 '15 at 20:16
  • As the pirate with the steering wheel down his pants said, "Arr! It's drivin' me nuts!" – dodgethesteamroller May 21 '15 at 20:53
  • I agree totally @FumbleFingers. – Edwin Ashworth May 21 '15 at 22:53
  • @FumbleFingers and EdwinAshworth. No -- I am NOT just talking about some shortening from quick or unemphasized speech to /mə/ /mɪ/ or /mæ/. It is a clear pronunciation of /mi/ as in the Wikipedia quote I provided in the comment. I searched for a video clip, but it's not an easy thing to search for. I'm adding an excerpt from the Downton Abbey character Daisy as an example. I hope someone else can find a video clip. – ThePopMachine May 22 '15 at 14:38
  • Using both forms could be a result of the increased movement of people. For example I have lived in various parts of the UK (S.E, S.W and Wales) and while I generally speak using an RP-cum-estuary accent when I've been drinking a Southwest twang comes in. This could be the simple explanation for hearing some people use the two dialectal versions. Source: me down the pub. – Jascol May 22 '15 at 14:53
  • @Jascol: Do you agree there are cases where you (or anyone) would clear articulate as /mi/? – ThePopMachine May 22 '15 at 15:10
  • @ThePopMachine: Inevitably there will be some people (even native speakers) who misinterpret what they "hear" other people say, and subsequently promote the "erroneous" usage. Which may rarely or never be "corrected" by others, because they know what word they're expecting to hear (my) so they don't necessarily even notice what's going on. If you like, assuming the actual word *me* can validly be used instead of *my* is effectively an "eggcorn" usage. – FumbleFingers May 22 '15 at 15:15
  • @FumbleFingers: I know what you're saying but I'm respectfully saying you are wrong. It's right there in the Wikipedia quote (I'm sure someone could find another source too, if you don't like that one). People say 'me' when they have no problem pronouncing other words then rhyme with my. People don't say be for by or dee for die or he for hi. I know those aren't great examples (by is the best) but this is not an eggcorn., – ThePopMachine May 22 '15 at 15:40
  • Let me clarify more. I don't actually care whether people spell it me or my. But people are clearly saying /mi/ in some cases. If you want to call it a special rare pronunciation of my, fine, but it doesn't change the question about when the usage occurs. – ThePopMachine May 22 '15 at 15:44
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    @ThePopMachine: Actually, some people do both say and write *be* for *by, as in Four be two timber. Four inch by two inch (where that* speaker clearly knows what he's doing, but not everyone necessarily would). Even Partridge acknowledges it here – FumbleFingers May 22 '15 at 15:54
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    It’s not special, and it’s not rare. @Fumble has the right of this matter here. It is simply an alternate pronunciation, and one documented by the OED, too. – tchrist May 29 '15 at 03:35
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    It's a non-standard usage, one which is often used in movies (at least in the US) to imply membership in the British lower-classes. It's hard to guess (from this side of the pond) whether the usage is actually common in the UK. (I certainly don't recall it being used by the few UK-born folks I've known over the years.) – Hot Licks Jan 07 '17 at 03:43
  • Added, If it is possivle, why does it used and what are the differences of nuance? – P.choi Jan 07 '17 at 03:43
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    That's a spelling pronunciation. – tchrist Jan 07 '17 at 03:52
  • @HotLicks: Don't forget Popeye. – Drew Jan 07 '17 at 03:54
  • ....or John Lennon. – Cascabel_StandWithUkraine_ Jan 07 '17 at 03:56
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    @FumbleFingers I agree entirely with your contributions on this post, but would also suggest that whilst it is essentially working class, it does vary considerably from region to region. In Norfolk all you get is a m' as in m'mother, or five b'four timber. And I think the northern mi mates differs from the Cockney, where it does actually sound like me. – WS2 Jan 07 '17 at 09:46

1 Answers1

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This is a complicated matter. There exists an unstressed form of my which, because of normal vowel reduction of unstressed syllables, is variously pronounced [mi ~ mɪ ~ mɨ ~ mə] without the normal long diphthong [mɑɪ] which you’re used to hearing.

This reduced pronunciation is often heard in the north of Britain today, but it is not strictly limited to that region; this unstressed form has existed in English as long as the language has existed. Its use has been stigmatized, but it is not wrong and it’s certainly common enough.

What arguably is wrong is to misleadingly spell it me as though it were the wrong word. It isn’t: it’s the right word, but people are writing it wrong. They’re using what we call a “spelling-pronunciation” to try to use non-standard spelling to represent dialect speech.

Wikipedia calls this a “pronunciation respelling”:

A pronunciation respelling is a regular phonetic respelling of a word that does have a standard spelling, so as to indicate the pronunciation. Pronunciation respellings are sometimes seen in dictionaries.

It’s like h-dropping in non-tonic syllables. Just because someone says “Give ’er another one” without an [h] doesn’t mean you should normally write her that way.

tchrist
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  • Shouldn't you add that this pronunciation is normally found in the north of Great Britain? The writer is British and so too are the characters in Harry Potter. As an aside, I believe me mam crosses from the Irish borders. (Not sure about that) – Mari-Lou A Jan 07 '17 at 07:15
  • Please read @NVZ's comment to the question. –  Jan 07 '17 at 09:45
  • @Mari-LouA I think that's a little too specific. I've certainly heard it used in London and other parts of Southern England. "Where's me jumper?" is a song by the Sultans of Ping FC who are apparently Irish. Something similar is also used in Caribbean (-influenced) English. – Chris H Jan 07 '17 at 13:18
  • This is also stereotypical Pirate language. "Avast, me hearties" etc. – John Feltz Jan 07 '17 at 13:34
  • @ChrisH my original comment was moved to here. Thought I had lost it for a moment when I saw the question had changed :) – Mari-Lou A Jan 07 '17 at 13:46