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Just now I was walking my dogs down S St. in Sacramento. We were gaining on a woman walking in front of us, when she turned around to see who was behind her.

"Sorry," I said. "We aren't going to run you down."

She smiled. "No, it's just that I heard this jingling behind me, and it was getting closer. But they aren't menacing," she said, referring to my dogs.

"Well, sometimes they are. But they're in a good mood right now."

Was my last statement entirely accurate?

Certainly it was crystal clear to my interlocutor and me—both of whom, if it isn't obvious, are fluent English speakers—but was there a logical and/or grammatical looseness in my language that we both tolerated, or was I, strictly speaking, correct?

Let me restate my question: In saying that my dogs were in "a good mood," did I imply that they were in a single good mood? What I meant to imply is that each of the dogs was in a good mood—which may or may not have been exactly the same good mood.

Consider the following phrase offered by user WS2 in the comments:

Hilda and Charles were both in good moods this morning.

Therefore, should I have said my dogs were in "good moods," leaving open that the moods might have been, in a subtle way, different?

abcd
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    The prepositional phrase 'in a good mood' is a fixed expression, and, like an adjective (well, all except possibly 'blond'),, does not inflect. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 21:42
  • @EdwinAshworth i'd say this belongs as an answer (which i would accept), rather than a comment. – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 21:43
  • @EdwinAshworth the adjective "blond" inflects? – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 21:44
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    From Grammarist: << Blond vs. blonde In French, blond is masculine and blonde is feminine. This distinction generally extends to the English adjectives, especially in British English, where blonde is more common than blond (mainly because the word is used in reference to females more often than than to males). In American and Canadian English, blond is generally preferred over blonde in all cases—even in reference to female hair color—though a minority of writers continue to observe the gender distinction. In any ... – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 21:48
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    case, using blonde in reference to male hair is simply a misspelling. >> // I've answered the question, but I'd say the question is more appropriate for ELL than ELU. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 21:49
  • @EdwinAshworth oh, i disagree with your last remark. you're a bit out of touch if you think my asking this question implies i am an "english-language learner," according to any normal definition of that term. – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 21:51
  • @EdwinAshworth but if this gets migrated to ELL (highly unlikely) it will make for a great meta discussion! – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 21:56
  • Yes. Most people asking questions on ELL know how to capitalise, attempt to follow accepted conventions, and have read the site's recommendations for good questions. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 21:57
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    @EdwinAshworth yes, what is this capitalization i've been hearing so much about? – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 21:59
  • @EdwinAshworth But let's say Hilda and Charles each start the day 'in a good mood'. (Which follows your reasoning) But Charles gets a phone call that immediately changes his good mood to a different type of good mood to that of Hilda. How do we explain this without the use of the plural moods? Would we say Hilda and Charles are in a differently ordered good mood. or Hilda and Charles are in differently ordered good moods? – WS2 Jun 05 '15 at 22:56
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    @WS2 It doesn't make sense to me to over-analyse here. Even OP says '... were in the same good mood? (I don't know that we have the technology to confirm that.)' Dictionary.sensAgent gives, as a synonym for 'in a good mood', 'in good spirits'. Content. It's a fixed idiom. Doubtless countification/half-countification is valid, as in 'X's mood was betterthan Y's'. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 23:40
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    @EdwinAshworth exactly. the fixed expression "in a good mood" is not precise enough to cover this scenario -- but we use it anyway unless the context demands that we invent a new way of speaking to convey a higher level of mood precision. (one might look to the psychology literature to see how mood researchers have addressed this issue.) – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 23:43
  • @WS2 note that if the intention is to convey that two individuals are each in a good mood, this generally implies that the emphasis is on the fact that they have something in common -- goodness of mood -- and so it would rarely be necessary in the same statement to point out a difference -- i.e., in the level or quality of this goodness. perhaps this is why the expression "in a good mood" has become fixed. – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 23:47
  • 'Does this imply that they were in the same good mood?' It means no more than 'they were both contented'. You asked how the expression is understood (and thus what its meaning is accepted as), not whether the language is compositionally precisionist. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 23:48
  • @EdwinAshworth where is the evidence that i asked for one and not the other? – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 23:49
  • 'Did I mis-speak with my last statement?' means 'Did I express myself in an insufficiently clear or accurate way? [ ODO ] If you were using words in a non-standard way when you said 'But they're in a good mood right now", this question is totally off-topic here. Why should anyone other than yourself know if you intended a non-standard meaning? You need to recast it for it to be acceptable. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 05 '15 at 23:56
  • @EdwinAshworth i did not intend a non-standard meaning. and yes, accuracy and clarity are the issues we're discussing here. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:06
  • Would you like me to attempt to edit your question to make it clearly address what I think is the root issue here? – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 00:09
  • @EdwinAshworth the question is clearly stated. i think it would be great, though, for you to provide a thorough answer. you have all the raw material for a great one here in the comments. i'd accept it. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:10
  • I'll edit the question; you can revert if you like. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 00:11
  • oh, @EdwinAshworth. why ask a question if you aren't prepared for the answer? – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:12
  • It's your [version of the] question I'm unhappy about. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 00:24
  • 'Mood' is a count noun in certain situations: He has his good moods and his bad moods. Though there is some evidence that 'were in good moods' is becoming more widely used [ Google Ngrams ], the idiom 'were in a bad mood' is still by far the more common choice for a plural subject. If finer structure is required, the idiom is perhaps best avoided. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 00:30
  • @EdwinAshworth with my most recent comment i was referring to the question you asked. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:37
  • @EdwinAshworth i like the spirit of your edit, but i'm going to refine it to make it in-line with my original intent. now, what can we do to make you more amenable to putting all of your wonderful insights into an answer? – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:39
  • If I'm mistaken about what your question really means, I don't see how I can answer. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 00:42
  • @EdwinAshworth yes, yes. the question has been updated. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 00:59
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    @EdwinAshworth Hilda and Charles were both in good moods this morning. I honestly don't see how any grammarian could dogmatically argue against it. That is not to say that H & C were both in a good mood is not equally valid. But there might well be a contextual reason for preferring the former. That's all I'm saying. – WS2 Jun 06 '15 at 07:58
  • If you are attempting to use English in the way most people would understand, saying that my dogs were in "a good mood" is just an alternative for saying they are both in good spirits, friendly, happy. The idiom is hardly decomposable. If you wished to have a deep discussion about individual levels of happiness, you should have avoided the idiom 'in a good mood' (not analysable in count terms; cf 'they were in a coma' ) and used more precisionist terms. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 10:00
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    I think @WS2 might have something there: H & C were in good moods suggests that their moods were assessed separately; in a good mood suggests that they were in good spirits together. Thus if the OP's dogs are together, they are in a singular good mood. – Andrew Leach Jun 06 '15 at 12:37
  • @WS2 'Hilda and Chas were both in good moods this morning.' is of course fine as an alternative. I would now (after the clarifications) put in my first comment 'has no need to inflect for number; extremely few people would look beyond the 'contented' paraphrase (including OP at 1st, and 'she') to analyse mood levels on hearing either of these alternatives, but would take them both at the surface level. These expressions often seem less than logical: 'They are in a mess' implies a joint mess, but 'they are in a coma' obviously doesn't. Rephrasing is best if one wishes to go into mood-levels. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 14:45
  • @EdwinAshworth They are in a mess; they are both (independently of one another) in a mess; they are each in messes of their own individual making - all these seem possibilities in the English which I speak. – WS2 Jun 06 '15 at 16:38
  • ... Yes, but they have different emphases. The original OP confused (in my opinion) the obvious and normal interpretation of a standard if not too logical looking expression (They're in a good mood = happy) with non-pragmatic alternative readings. One is reminded of Gandalf's "What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning, or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?" Fun in 'The Hobbit'; daft to ask 'Is 'Good morning', strictly speaking, correct?' Idioms don't have to be compositional. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 16:45
  • A good test is replacing with nearby situations to see if there is a rule. "My friends got their hair cut today" vs "My friends got their hairs cut today". Which one sounds better? And does that grammatical situation similar enough to apply to yours? – Mitch Jun 06 '15 at 20:24
  • @Mitch Better: My friend got his head of hair cut today. My friends got their heads of hair cut today. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 21:06
  • @EdwinAshworth For Gandalf to consider all those alternatives is silly, but I could see a genuine confusion surrounding whether someone is commenting on the morning -- "hmm, good morning" -- or wishing someone else a good morning -- "hey you, good morning." We would infer from tone of voice. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 21:10
  • @EdwinAshworth not that that comparison is especially fitting to begin with, as the original question has to do with pluralizing an idiom. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 21:11
  • 'We would infer from tone of voice' Precisely. English is dependent on verbal and non-verbal cues. We usually manage to deduce which sense of 'wicked' (the two-syllable adjective) is intended from the context. Similarly, in 99.9+% of cases , pragmatics demands that we interpret 'the dogs are in a good mood' as 'they're not nasty at the moment'. Thus the answer to '[in this context] should I have said my dogs were in "good moods," leaving open that the moods might have been, in a subtle way, different?] is 'No'. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 21:16
  • @EdwinAshworth again, I don't really dispute your answer; I dispute your telling me I don't have a right to ask the question here. But, in truth, the answer to my question depends on exactly what information I intended to convey. It seems in general agreement here that using the plural in my case would've been acceptable. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 21:19
  • If you want to give a question asking about the different levels of lexical variation available in idioms of the type ['in a flash' /] 'in a hurry' / 'in a good mood' / 'in a class of his own', I'd say that that would be far more acceptable here. It might take some answering.... But your original question is answered trivially: Most people would say 'the dogs are in a good mood' and most would take this as 'They're not going to bite me'. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 21:21
  • @EdwinAshworth OK, I'm on board. We're going to have to wait until I get back from Tahoe, though (tomorrow night, Pacific time). I'm not writing that out on my phone. – abcd Jun 06 '15 at 21:23
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    You're just saying that to provoke me. I've always wanted to see the marvellous lake. In spite of the Quincy episode. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 06 '15 at 21:25
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    I think this is a good question as currently expressed, and I've voted to reopen it. With regard to the question of idiom or not, it might be interesting to compare "in a good mood/in good moods" with "in a good frame of mind/in good frames of mind." I think that English speakers tend to go with the unitary wording not because we imagine that everyone has the same mood (or frame of mind) but because everyone has just one at any particular moment—and we apply it across multiple perhaps because we are referring to the possessors of the mood jointly AND severally. Anyway, interesting question. – Sven Yargs Jun 06 '15 at 22:25
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    this example just came to my mind today: "My wife and I took a bath last night." the implication seems to be that one bath was taken. "My wife and I took baths last night." the implication seems to be that two baths were taken. – abcd Jun 08 '15 at 17:52
  • Good news, your question has been reopened! If you want to bump your post to the front of the queue you can either 1) edit the original post 2) post your own answer. – Mari-Lou A Jun 09 '15 at 08:42
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    @SvenYargs the question has been reopened. – Mari-Lou A Jun 09 '15 at 08:43
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    @Mitch Your comparison example is not close enough. A closer example is 'in a tight spot'. John and Bill were in a tight spot. Obviously an idiom, but there is a possibility of lexical variation: John and Bill were in tight spots but for very different reasons. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 09 '15 at 21:37
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    There was a logical looseness in your language that is, however, trumped by accepted usage and so it would not make sense to say you were incorrect. The count noun usage within the idiom, 'were in good moods', is likewise acceptable today. If you wished to quantify and contrast the moods of the two animals, a count (or countish; there is a gradience here) noun construction rather than the non-count 'in a good mood' would be mandatory. // The 'different levels of lexical variation available in [these] idioms' question? – Edwin Ashworth Jun 09 '15 at 21:48
  • @EdwinAshworth in response to your question, it is one of several outstanding projects in my life. of those, its priority is lowest. – abcd Jun 09 '15 at 21:57

2 Answers2

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Use of 'are in good moods'

Different Google Books searches for "are in good moods" yield different results, depending on time frame chosen and additional words chosen to include with the phrase, but a search specifically for "are in good moods" across the period 1700–2005 turns up only 43 matches. The earliest match I found is from V. S. Srinivasa Sastri, Lectures on the Ramayana, (1961) [combined snippets]:

For we all know from experience that neither the best nor the lowest amongst us, neither men nor women, neither Westerners nor Easterners, none who is human, is able to occupy one level of thought, one level of action, and one level of function; we go up sometimes when we are in good moods, receptive of ethical notions, conscious of our duties, comparatively strong to resist temptations, in noble surroundings, amidst noble people, thinking noble thoughts and capable of doing noble deeds. Alas! such moments are not always available.

Another fairly early instance occurs in a twilight-of-the-USSR offering from Andrei Frelov & Lois Becker Frelov, Against the Odds: A True American-Soviet Love Story (1983) [combined snippets]:

In the Soviet Union people do not smile as often. They buy things of poor quality from the government, and even these inferior items do not exist in quantities sufficient for normal life. Therefore, people are often in a bad temper, and insult one another with no apparent cause. But, at the Central Market in Moscow, where farmers receive good money for the vegetables and other foods that they have raised on their own private parcels of land, the picture is completely different. These people try to satisfy and please their customers. They are in good moods. They are polite, like in America.

Notice the contrast between the fifth sentence ("They are in good moods") and the wording of a comparable construction in the third sentence ("people are often in a bad temper"—rather than, as one might expect from the model of the fifth sentence, "people are often in bad tempers").

Something similar happens in this match from Andrea Henkart & Journey Henkart, Cool Communication: A Mother and Daughter Reveal the Keys to Mutual Understanding Between Parents and Kids (1998):

If something comes up that you really want to do and your parents won't let you do it, try to reason with them by discussing it. The trick is to calmly let them know why something may be so important to you. Usually the best time to explain things is not in the heat of the moment. It is definitely not a good idea to try to work things out during, or even right after, a fight. Whenever you decide to talk to your parents, make sure they are in good moods. They will listen better when they don't have so many other things on their minds. The way to find out if they are in a good mood, and if it is the right time to talk with them, is simply by asking. Remember to keep calm.

Here the author switches from "are in good moods" to the more common "are in a good mood," when the discussion shifts from theoretical and general to hypothetical and specific, suggesting that her commitment to "they are in good moods" is less than a wholehearted.

The great majority of the matches are from 2000 or later, starting with Spencer Rathus, Psychology: The Core (2000):

THE HELPER: WHO HELPS? Many factors affect helping behavior:

  1. Empathic observers who are in good moods are more likely to help. Most psychologists focus on the roles of a helper's mood and personality traits. By and large, we are more likely to help others when we are in a good mood (Baron & Byrne, 1997). Perhaps good moods impart a sense of personal power. People who are empathic are also more likely to help people in need (Darley, 1993).

Here, again, "are in good moods" rapidly and unconsciously gives way to "are in a good mood" when the subject shifts from "Empathic observers who" to "we."


Use of 'are in a good mood'

In contrast to the 43 matches it finds for "are in good moods," a Google search over the same period for "are in a good mood" yields 135 matches—meaning that the singular form "a good mood" with are in is about three times as common in the search results as the plural form "good moods" with are in. This form also goes much farther back, with a first occurrence from Robert Wodrow, The History of the Sufferings of the Church of Scotland, from the Restauration to the Revolution, volume 2 (1722):

March 11 [1684]. the Justices and Advocate are in a good Mood. Anent the criminal Process in Dependence, against Sir William Lockhart of Carstairs, Mr. Hugh Maxwel of Dalswintoun, (who, towards the End of this Year, got not so well off) John Campbel of Horsecleugh, James Campbel of Greenock-mains, and about Eighty Country People, who are present, the Advocate declares his Majesty hath ordered the Dirt to be deserted against them ; and the Lords desert it simpliciter.

The same idiomatic form appears almost 300 years later in, for example, Barry Babin & Eric Harris, CB 7 (2015):

As a result, retailers should prefer that consumers shop in their stores when they are in a good mood. Many cues can make a consumer's mood more positive, including music, smells, and even exposure to lucky numbers!

This appears to be, by a significant margin, the more common way of referring to the good mood(s) of multiple people, though "are in good moods" is not exactly rare.


Emergence of 'in a good mood' as a common expression

The rise of "in a good mood" (red line) as a common idiomatic expression is chiefly a twentieth-century phenomenon, as this Ngram chart for the years 1710–2005 reflects:

In contrast the wording "in good moods" (blue line) is far less frequent. The much greater frequency of "in a good mood" may act against any natural inclination to attribute being "in good moods" to multiple individuals that may each be in a different (but good) mood.

Sven Yargs
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  • All that effort and this answer doesn't even rate a single upvote? Shameful. +1, Sven, and great work - only wish I could vote more than once. –  Jun 17 '15 at 02:36
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In a good mood is the correct way to say it.

Let's say you're referring to one person (singular): "I'm in a good mood."

Now you and another individual: "We're in a good mood."

Now two other individuals: "They're in a good mood."

The amount of people affects the pronoun, not the word 'mood' itself. So if you're referring to both of your dogs you'd say "they're in a good mood"—the pronoun they is what represents both of them.

Hellion
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  • cool, thanks. the reason i was looking for is that "in a good mood" is a fixed expression and therefore does not inflect, as @EdwinAshworth stated above. but i'll accept this! – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 22:19
  • note that because "in a good mood" is a fixed expression, the logical reasoning i included in my question -- i.e., how many moods are really present? -- is irrelevant to the resolution of this grammatical issue. – abcd Jun 05 '15 at 22:24
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    user124221 - the quality of your answer would be significantly improved if you edited-in your comment. Congratulations on your first accepted answer! :-) –  Jun 05 '15 at 22:38
  • @LittleEva thank you for the heads up. I'm new here so I have much to learn. – user124221 Jun 05 '15 at 22:41
  • That is what makes EL&U so captivating. Enjoy yourself. BTW, study "good" answers and emulate. If you click on 'edit' below one of those good answers it will open up and you can review the formatting - being careful not to inadvertently alter anything, then save the edit (that you didn't make). –  Jun 05 '15 at 22:47