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I am aware that the universally accepted style is to put an apostrophe-s at the end of the second possessor's name.

Example: Amy and Steve's car

My question is not whether that is the common rule; I know it is.

My question is whether anyone knows of a style guide, grammar, or other authority that condones writing this in the usual style of a plural possessor; that is, with an apostrophe on the end of the compound/plural owner's name:

John and Jacks' house

John Merrill, Stephen Arthur, Chuck Williams, and Donald Smiths' law firm

Thanks!

SAH
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    Apostrophes can only do so much; they're silent, after all. How would you say the two different sentences with different meanings? If there are two different meanings -- and if there aren't, what's the problem? – John Lawler Aug 27 '15 at 15:48
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    related: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/120449/use-of-the-possessive-apostrophe-in-a-list – Jim Aug 27 '15 at 16:21
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    @JohnLawler It's a question about written style. – SAH Aug 28 '15 at 08:42
  • Yeah, but that just means it's a question about representing spoken language in print. Written style has to do with details of the representation, as long as they don't obscure the representation. If you would *say* Amy's and Steve's car, as opposed to Amy and Steve's car, by all means write it. I can think of several reasons why I might prefer two possessives instead of one -- for instance, to leave the way open for an inference that, while Amy and Steve are joint owners of the car, they are not a couple, which is at least an invited inference of Amy and Steve's car – John Lawler Aug 28 '15 at 15:41
  • @JohnLawler I'm sorry but I don't follow your point. You think I shouldn't be asking about correct written style because the expressions sound the same? – SAH Sep 18 '15 at 20:19
  • I'm saying "correct written style" is not worth paying any attention to. It's nothing but opinion anyway; simply looking at how apostrophes are used tells one that much. Punctuating a sentence strangely will not make up for constructing it in a confusing way in the first place. Start over and make it clear first; then, if you can't help youself, worry about punctuation. – John Lawler Sep 18 '15 at 20:51
  • I think many hundreds of years is just enough time for it to have become common knowledge that the Saxon genitive is built using 's and never s'. It is perfectly clear that there are no style guides that recommend the latter, because the latter does not so much as exist. However, it is also perfectly clear that you are welcome to write any number of style guides yourself, and have them say anything you please. And it perfectly clear you can't expect anyone to follow them, especially if they recommend things that do not so much as exist. – RegDwigнt Oct 29 '15 at 13:28
  • @RegDwigнt♦ I have no idea why you closed my question; it is perfectly clear what I'm asking, even if you don't like it. Regarding your comment, that "the Saxon genitive is built using 's and never s'," you seem to have completely overlooked the genitive plural, which is what I'm talking about. – SAH Oct 30 '15 at 17:14
  • First of all, I've always seen firms called by the partners's last names, never first and last names. Secondly, there's no need for the apostrophe. It's should be: Meril, Arthur, Williams & Smith Law Firm And lastly, if I'm not mistaken, when the possessive apostrophe is used then only the senior partner's name is mentioned. In your example, it would be Merril, because the senior and most important partner is usually mentioned first. Hence it would Merril's offices are located in NYC, or (very unlikely) Merril's Law Firm but I doubt any partner would agree to that latter formula. – Mari-Lou A Nov 03 '15 at 20:52

4 Answers4

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I'm not going to do an exhaustive search of usage manuals -- and I don't think it's worth your while to either, because

John and Jacks' house

would mean the house belong to John and Jacks, where Jacks is the name of one person. (Perhaps it's a nickname.)

So... nice idea, but I don't think it will fly.

aparente001
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  • I'm afraid this didn't answer my question. – SAH Sep 09 '15 at 16:08
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    Also, I disagree with your claim that a house belonging to a "John" and a "Jacks" would be "John and Jacks' house." I think it would instead be "John and Jacks's house" (as it would be "John and Chris's house"). – SAH Sep 09 '15 at 16:10
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Thanks for this question. I sometimes wonder and would sometimes want reliable references for some language styles. I saw an article Possessive with Two Nouns which says--

"The possessive case can be confusing, especially when two nouns are doing the possessing. Fortunately, The Chicago Manual of Style sheds light on this conundrum. [emphasis mine]

"Chicago says that when two nouns “possess” the same entity, only the second takes an apostrophe (‘):

my aunt and uncle’s house

Gilbert and Sullivan’s lolanthe

Minneapolis and Saint Paul’s transportation system"

https://writingtips.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/possessive-with-two-nouns/

I hope this answers your question.

Portcall
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You don't need a style guide. Most gramnars mention this special kind of s-genitive:

  • I've just been to Peter and Zoe's flat.

This is much more usual than "Peter's and Zoe's flat. Source: Oxford Guide to English Grammar, John Eastwood, section 146e.

rogermue
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John and Jacks' house mean, the house belongs to John and more than one Jack.

Where Paul's chair, the chair belongs to Paul. If there were two or more Paul's and they each own a chair, you would write; Pauls' chairs.

If John and Jack each own a chair, would you write, John's and Jack's chair. They each own a chair. John's and Jack's chairs, they both own multiple chairs.

Where they jointly own a chair. John's and Jack's chair, or John and Jack's chair. The latter sounds correct, but the apostrophe clearly indicate they jointly own a single chair. Both are correct.

You may also consider ordering the names alphabetically I.e. Jack's and John's chair.

Where we have many Jack's and many John's each owning many chairs, then it's Jacks' and Johns' chairs. "Please can the Jacks' and the Johns' put your chairs away".

Source: Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation

Paul Whitlock
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    Welcome to ELU.SE. Unfortunately this does not answer the question at the top of the page, which appears to explain the downvote. Your post appears to be asking more questions. Please do take the [tour] — Stack Exchange is not a discussion site and does not encourage discussions. – Andrew Leach Sep 07 '21 at 21:45
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