How do I express "clockwisality"?

Question

Is "clockwisality" a valid word for discussing whether something is clockwise or anti-clockwise? If not, what words if any can express this?

For example,

In the context of the anime "Bleach", which clockwisality should the swastika be? Should it be "卍" or "卐"?

One possibility I can think of is using "clockwiseness", but the resulting sentence is awkward:

In the context of the anime "Bleach", does the swastika have clockwiseness?

to me may indicate it has clockwiseness, anticlockwiseness, or neither.

Does the answer have to be a single word? How about "clockwise rotation"? — Nonnal, Nov 13 '15 at 23:51
The usual word for this is "sense" - but there needs to be enough context to distinguish this from other meanings of "sense". — Colin Fine, Nov 13 '15 at 23:58
@ColinFine I would love to be proven wrong, but I thought that "sense" (in mathematics) only applied to straight lines? TFD definition #11 — Nonnal, Nov 14 '15 at 00:01
OED, s.v. sense, definition 29b: "Chiefly Math. That which distinguishes a pair of entities which differ only in that each is the reverse of the other." I certainly recognise the "sense" of a rotation. Another word is "chirality". — Colin Fine, Nov 14 '15 at 00:06
Just say "which direction should the swastika point?" Forget about trying to invent a new word or convert an established one, or use math or physics terms. — michael_timofeev, Nov 14 '15 at 00:14
Other questions about orientations: Is there a technical term for insideout-ness? and 'Male'/'female' is to 'gender' as 'left-handed'/'right-handed 'is to…? — choster, Nov 14 '15 at 00:19
Before there were round clocks the opposite direction (now "counterclockwise") was more prominent. The word for that direction was widdershins. The counterpart of "clockwise" is deasil. See the Deixis Lectures for more on the subject. — John Lawler, Nov 14 '15 at 00:32
@ColinFine: and the formation of the word chirality also suggests the analogous word handedness. — herisson, Nov 14 '15 at 01:05
I would think the chemical prefixes levo- and dextro- could be used. The adjectives levorotatory and dextrorotatory can be used to ascribe the attribute to a noun. — Hot Licks, Nov 14 '15 at 02:36
Learnèd terms for these include the adjectives dextrogyrate or dextrogyrous for right-turning versus sinistrogyrate or sinistrogyrous for left-turning. — tchrist, Nov 14 '15 at 13:51
And which swastika orientation, S-like or Z-like, is clockwise? (Is it arrow heads or feathers?) — 18446744073709551615, Nov 26 '15 at 13:38

score 49 · Answer 1 · answered Nov 14 '15 at 01:00

49

A chemist would formally call it chirality in a molecule and, by exentsion, there'd be a high-likelihood of chirality being used for similar phenomena in the sciences and other formal contexts.

More informally (such as here) it would be known as handedness, with right-handed, at least in the case of a shape like a swastika, likely denoting clockwise rotation. The "right" also has etymological connections to more obscure words for clockwise (eg dextrorotation).

A conversation might plausibly be:

What is the handedness of swastikas used in Bleach?
They're right-handed.
Awkward.

There are also many exciting, obscure words used for clockwise and counterclockwise, which have often made their way into English from other languages or have survived, damaged and wheezing, into modern dictionaries. But few are in common use outside jargon, ritual, humour, picturesque settings, etc.

answered Nov 14 '15 at 01:00

Dan

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Would a chemist refer to this as chirality? Clockwise refers to a direction of movement. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 01:04
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The clarifying example given by the questioner, of the swastika, does not refer to physical movement, but to a movement implied by a transformation between superimposable states to distinguish between organisations. This is exactly one use of the word chirality used in the sciences. If we're talking about running round a church clockwise taking you to fairyland, it would be incongruous to talk of the handedness or chirality of your run. But comparing shapes to distinguish mirror images (where the movement is in the eye of the beholder), this is the terminology often used. – Dan Nov 14 '15 at 01:10
I understand, but the question asks about clockwise, which we understand as a direction of rotation. The only reason this question comes up is because the swastika has left and right arrows coming off it. Many molecules don't have these arrows. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 01:12
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I'm a bit lost here, Michael. As I understand it from your other comments to other answers, you know what chirality means in a technical context, but your comment immediately above to me exactly describes the distinction between a chiral and non-chiral centre (why a Maltese cross is not chiral, for example). So something must be being lost in our communication. The rules for R/S notation of chirality, for example, precisely invoke this idea of clockwise-ness, even when the underlying situation has no inherent "movement" at all, for exactly the purposes described here. – Dan Nov 14 '15 at 01:18
+1 Chirality was my first thought as well. It perfectly describes pattern orientation here, in my view. – Robusto Nov 14 '15 at 01:19
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@DanSheppard so if an ice skater were spinning, would it make sense to talk about her chirality? I'm not so sure. Angular momentum sure, because it is a vector quantity. I think my quibble is using chirality to talk about rotational direction which is what we think of about clocks. There are many molecules and knots that one can't look at and say they are "clockwise" or "anti-clockwise." – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 01:30
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I think we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As I've said, I don't consider it natural to talk about the trajectory of a motion as chirality, but do think it is appropriate when comparing configurations and symmetries. It seems to me (but it seems not to you) that this is the sense in which the questioner, given their example, means to use clockwise. The word "clockwise" can be used in both ways and I used the example to disambiguate the sense intended. I think we need to wait for the questioner now. – Dan Nov 14 '15 at 01:38
After thinking about this, I think my objection is really that in the example sentence he gave, the word "orientation" is the best fit. One can't put the word "chirality" in the sentence. But "Chirality" fits the topic "How do I express..." So I think your answer is right for the topic, but another word should go in the sentence...so I up voted both yours and Milo's answers because I think they are both helpful. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 06:36
+1 "chirality" exactly describes the property displayed in the example. Except perhaps in some domain specific language, "orientation" is less precise and is more likely to be understood to refer to the symbol's rotation (e.g. either upright or angled at 45 degrees). As you mention both "chirality" and "handedness", it might be nice to point out the etymological connection between them. – DeveloperInDevelopment Nov 14 '15 at 12:26
To (ab)use another chemical analogy, you could refer to them as dextrorotatory or levorotatory swastikas. – March Ho Nov 14 '15 at 14:05
@michael_timofeev a swastika isn't an ice skater, it's a shape. An ice skater doesn't have a chirality, but a shape (a mathematical figure) can. – hobbs Nov 15 '15 at 04:54
@hobbs see littman's answer – michael_timofeev Nov 15 '15 at 05:01
Is "chirality" often used with "clockwise" and "counterclockwise"? I've heard "this figure is chiral" rather than "the chirality of this figure is _____", but I won't claim to have enough experience with the word to draw any conclusions about its use. – Milo Brandt Nov 15 '15 at 17:25
Related: http://english.stackexchange.com/q/241616/8278 – Pacerier Aug 02 '16 at 04:21

score 36 · Accepted Answer · answered Nov 14 '15 at 02:02

36

In mathematics, the word orientation is used to talk about clockwise versus counterclockwise. Using this, one might phrase your question as:

How are the arms of the swastika oriented?

or

Which orientation do the arms of the swastika have?

The word "direction" can also be used to similar effect, although it is more general.

answered Nov 14 '15 at 02:02

Milo Brandt

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I think this is a good fit. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 06:27

score 5 · Answer 3 · answered Nov 14 '15 at 00:16

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I would use "sense".

Definition 29b for this word, in the Oxford English Dictionary, is "Chiefly Math. That which distinguishes a pair of entities which differ only in that each is the reverse of the other."

The Wikipedia article "Clockwise" contains the phrase "Clocks traditionally follow this sense of rotation"

Another, rather rare, word for it is "chirality".

answered Nov 14 '15 at 00:16

Colin Fine

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Chirality is not rare, as it is used almost exclusively by chemists and particle physicist...just recently when talking about graphene, or when talking about the chirality of electrons or molecules. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 00:51
...maybe rare outside of the science world...if that is what you mean. – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 00:53
Also chirality relates to the "handedness" of something, not its rotational direction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chirality – michael_timofeev Nov 14 '15 at 00:59
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The problem with "sense", in the sense that the questioner might use it, is that it is such an overloaded word that it is difficult to extract sense from the phrase "What is the sense?" by sensing which sense of sense is being used. – Dan Nov 14 '15 at 01:13
"rotation(al) sense" or "rotation(al) direction" seem to be common .... – rackandboneman Nov 14 '15 at 11:34

score 5 · Answer 4 · answered Nov 14 '15 at 02:03

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For clockwise and counter-clockwise motion, direction works fine. If you say, "In which direction does the wheel turn?" your meaning will be clear.

However, in the swastika example, I'm not sure you can say that either example is oriented clockwise or counter-clockwise unless it is spinning. These two terms denote motion.

One might consider left- or right-facing, assuming you can discern one from the other.

However, the most likely one would be to define one as the Nazi swastika and the other simply as its mirror image, since this is the most common association with the swastika these days.

answered Nov 14 '15 at 02:03

Steven Littman

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That's pretty blunt in the last paragraph! – Golden Cuy Nov 14 '15 at 02:05
Well, for the sake of clarity, it's what will clear up the ambiguity. Can you think of a better way to describe it? – Steven Littman Nov 14 '15 at 02:07
Despite that association, both forms have traditional usage. – R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE Nov 14 '15 at 02:23
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Yes, and any educated person is aware of that, but that association is the one that clarifies the direction of the swastika to most people. – Steven Littman Nov 14 '15 at 02:24

score 4 · Answer 5 · edited Jun 15 '20 at 07:40

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Although it's already been mentioned before, I'm going to second handedness.

This is the term used by mechanical engineers.

It's quite common to find notes like this on a drawing:

Headlamp assembly

One required as drawn.

One required opposite hand.

edited Jun 15 '20 at 07:40

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answered Nov 14 '15 at 19:55

Level River St

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I'm not convinced that engineering drawings should be regarded as font of correctness as far as grammar is concerned! – Nicole Nov 20 '15 at 09:19

score 2 · Answer 6 · answered Nov 13 '15 at 23:58

Wiktionary lists clockwiseness as "The quality of being clockwise." (Source)

However, the fact that none of these forms appear to be in any official dictionary (e.g. Merriam-Webster) implies that there is no generally accepted noun form of "clockwise." Google ngrams returned no results for either term.

If you have to use a single word, I would choose "clockwiseness," which does appear to have some general usage (just google it as evidence).

To be safe, I would go with the phrase "clockwise rotation" (especially in formal writing, where "odd" words would be more likely to be scrutilized).

But, if I had my choice, my vote would be to make clockwise into a noun using the same rules as we use for the word "wise," thus giving us: "clockwisdom." :-)

It seems that ngram confirms my feeling that "clockwise direction" is often used. — Graffito, Nov 14 '15 at 00:10
I'm voting up on this as I feel clockwise rotation is commonly understood. — michael_timofeev, Nov 14 '15 at 01:10

score 1 · Answer 7 · answered Nov 21 '15 at 19:31

Using clockwise, modified or not by a suffix, in this context is wrong. Clockwise is about direction of motion whereas the OP only wanted to know about the right way round, or orientation, for a swastika. But I'd also like to address the suffix he used, -ality, which is inappropriate anyway.

The suffix is a combination (https://www.wordnik.com/words/-ality) of -al + -ity:

-al (https://www.wordnik.com/words/-al): suffix of or pertaining to; adjectival suffix appended to various words, often nouns, to make an adjective form. Often added to words of Latin origin, but used with other words also.

-ity (https://www.wordnik.com/words/-ity): suffix Used to form a noun from an adjective; especially, to form the noun referring to the state, property, or quality of conforming to the adjective's description.

In the context of the OP, clockwise is an adjective:

clockwise (https://www.wordnik.com/words/clockwise): adj. Moving clockwise; having rotary motion in the manner of a clock.

So, using -ality you would produce an adjective by the use of -al and then a noun by the use of -ity; but the appended word clockwise is already an adjective, so -al is redundant. We are left with -ity, hence clockwisity is a noun. But this is not the way to form a noun from clockwise - as pointed out, -ness is the suffix to use to form a noun: clockwiseness:

-ness (https://www.wordnik.com/words/-ness): suffix Appended to adjectives to form nouns meaning "the state of (the adjective)", "the quality of (the adjective)", or "the measure of (the adjective)".

But even clockwiseness would not do here for the reason already alluded to.

score 0 · Answer 8 · edited Jun 15 '20 at 07:40

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I like truly obscure usages and Patrick O'Brien books. If anyone shares those interests I suggest this from the Oxford Dictionaries.

against the sun

Nautical Against the direction of the sun’s apparent movement in the northern hemisphere; from right to left or counterclockwise.

I think it would be safe to say that "with the sun" would be clockwise.

edited Jun 15 '20 at 07:40

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answered Nov 14 '15 at 22:54

Misneac

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with the sun would be "widdershins" :) – Jasen Nov 15 '15 at 02:56
@Jasen Is there a corollary? Anti clockwise could be something like "agindershins" perhaps? Or whatever old english is for "against", since I'm guessing wid = with, der = the and shins = suns. – Misneac Nov 15 '15 at 03:04
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"deasil" is the opposite AFAIK. – Jasen Nov 15 '15 at 03:21
Makes sense I guess. Maybe from the dexter axial. – Misneac Nov 15 '15 at 03:26
No, widder-shins is apparently derived from "against way" and deasil is from Gaelic (although the first part does seem to ultimately come from the same root as dexter). Looking up etymological derivations of English words on the Internet is generally quite easy; there's no need to guess. – herisson Nov 15 '15 at 21:40
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@sumelic I appreciate the heads up. I like to guess though. It's kind of like a detective novel for me. I like to hazard a guess at the beginning and see if my reasoning is sound. I'll always tell you if I'm guessing though. I'm not gonna rely on my intuition if somebody else is asking, unless they ask for "best guess" ;) – Misneac Nov 15 '15 at 21:46
@Jasen: from what I can find, it's the exact opposite? Widdershins seems to mean "against the sun," not "with the sun." – herisson Nov 15 '15 at 21:52

score -1 · Answer 9 · answered Nov 15 '15 at 16:51

-1

You're over-complicating. "Are they clockwise?" is quite enough. If you wanted to know whether or not they were green, you'd ask "Are they green?" not "Do they have greenness?"

answered Nov 15 '15 at 16:51

David Richerby

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OP is not looking for an equivalent to "greenness". He's looking an equivalent to color. – candied_orange Dec 07 '15 at 07:46
+1 for common sense, even if this doesn’t technically qualify as an answer. – Jan 16 '20 at 01:07

How do I express "clockwisality"?

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