I was wondering which of the following phrases are correct?
"without their having to learn" or "without them having to learn"?
Any help is highly appreciated.
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2Duplicate of http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/2625/when-is-a-gerund-supposed-to-be-preceded-by-a-possessive-adjective-determiner – Alan Carmack May 25 '16 at 16:30
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@AlanCarmack, I actually went through that thread, but was not able to figure out an answer to my question. I'll appreciate it if you explain it a little bit. – user2521204 May 25 '16 at 16:39
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What specifically were you not able to figure out? In almost all contexts it makes absolutely no difference whether you use possessive+gerund or noun subject+verb, but at least one answer points out that When the possessive alternative is used, it focuses attention on the action described in the ‘-ing’ clause. In contrast the regular Noun Phrase form puts more emphasis on the person doing the action. Which might occasionally be accurate. – FumbleFingers May 25 '16 at 17:19
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@FumbleFingers, do you mean "without them having to learn" is wrong? – user2521204 May 25 '16 at 18:19
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What makes you think I have any opinion about "right/wrong" here? I just said in almost all contexts it makes absolutely no difference. In fact, the possessive form is still far more common, but arguably you might sound more "modern" if you opt for the straight noun subject version. – FumbleFingers May 25 '16 at 18:26
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When a gerund-participle clause is complement of a preposition (like "without") both genitive and non-genitive subjects are possible. – BillJ May 25 '16 at 18:47
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@FumbleFingers, you mentioned that "you use possessive+gerund or noun subject+verb". I think this means "without their having to learn". But in "without them having to learn", I have used an Objective Pronoun (them). That's why I thought it might be wrong. – user2521204 May 25 '16 at 18:49
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@BillJ, I am so sorry for my lack of English knowledge. I'll appreciate it if you define genitive and non-genitive subjects means. – user2521204 May 25 '16 at 18:55
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Sorry, "their" is genitive, and "them" is non-genitive. – BillJ May 25 '16 at 18:59
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@BillJ, Thank you so much. Would you please add your comment as an answer here? I think this is the accepted answer. – user2521204 May 25 '16 at 19:02
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A bit late, but I've posted an answer. – BillJ May 26 '16 at 10:42
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@user2521204: I think it's pretty clear from your comments that you would do better asking questions on English Language Learners. Responses there are tailored to meet the needs of learners and non-native speakers, whereas ELU targets linguists, etymologists, and (serious) English language enthusiasts. – FumbleFingers May 26 '16 at 12:46
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@FumbleFingers, thank you so much for your comment. I actually was not aware of that site. However, now I have my answer. I'll post my future questions to that website. – user2521204 May 26 '16 at 14:19
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Where a gerund-participle clause is complement to a preposition, both genitive and non-genitive subjects are possible:
I have no objections to [their/them taking notes].
She insisted on [my/me being present at the interview].
So, both your examples are fine. It's essentially a free choice between genitive "their" and non-genitive "them", though the genitive is fairly formal compared to the non-genitive.
Note that if a non-genitive subject is a personal pronoun, it always takes the accusative case ("me/him/her/us/them").
BillJ
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Would you please explain your last paragraph a little more. Thanks. – user2521204 May 26 '16 at 10:58
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Sure: if the subject is a personal pronoun, it can be the genitive "my/your/his/her/our/your/their", or the accusative "me/him/her/us/them", but not the nominative "I/he/she/we/they". – BillJ May 26 '16 at 16:34