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Our editorial office is more talented than The New York Times'.

In this sentence why is it Times' and not Times's?

BladorthinTheGrey
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Ænigma
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  • Because the organization (newspaper)'s proper name is The New York Times, i.e. already includes the s. – Dan Bron Jul 21 '16 at 18:04
  • I was under the impression that you do not generally add the second s when the subject is a proper noun... so Jesus' instead of Jesus's but dress's not dress'. – Catija Jul 21 '16 at 18:43
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    Needs reading: Which singular names ending in s form possessives with only a bare apostrophe? – Edwin Ashworth Jul 21 '16 at 18:47
  • Apparently, it's not the usage the NYT seems to prefer: <<The New York Times Editorial Board ... The editorial board is composed of 16 journalists with wide-ranging areas of expertise. Their primary responsibility is to write The Times’s editorials, which represent the voice of the board, its editor and the publisher. The board is part of The Times’s editorial department, which is operated separately from The Times’s newsroom, and includes the Letters to the Editor and Op-Ed sections.>> {NYTimes.com opinion pages} – Edwin Ashworth Jul 21 '16 at 18:52
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    @Catija Jesus’ is pronounced the same as Jesus, while Jesus’s is pronounced the same as Jesuses. The spelling represents the pronunciation. – tchrist Jul 21 '16 at 20:09
  • @tchrist not in my experience. – Catija Jul 21 '16 at 20:16
  • According to Wikipedia, even the most respected linguists may not be the ultimate authority on this issue: – Edwin Ashworth Jul 21 '16 at 20:39
  • ... 'The Supreme Court of the United States is split on whether a possessive singular noun that ends with s should always have an additional s after the apostrophe, sometimes have an additional s after the apostrophe (for instance, based on whether the final sound of the original word is pronounced /s/ or /z/), or never have an additional s after the apostrophe. The informal majority view (5–4, based on past writings of the justices) has favoured the additional s, but a strong minority disagrees.' – Edwin Ashworth Jul 21 '16 at 20:39

2 Answers2

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Because it indicates that the speaker does not pronounce it differently than without the apostrophe.

Once a word is already plural and ends in /z/, we don’t add another /z/ to make it possessive. It sounds exactly the same.

But we do add an apostrophe in writing so that people know what we meant, for goodness’ sake. :)

tchrist
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Both ways are correct ways to write it: New York Times' and New York Times's. How you personally write it depends on how you say it. If you say "Timz" when making it possessive, you simply add an apostrophe after the S (Times'), but if you say Timziz" when making it possessive, you add and apostrophe S (Times's).

The New York Times being a media outlet, they have what is called a style guide. In their style guide, they have prescribed how possessive of New York Times should appear. Based on what I've seen, the New York Times itself only publishes using an apostrophe without an additional S. That, however, doesn't make writing New York Times's wrong, just wrong if you work for the New York Times.

The only names that have a hard and fast rule about how to make them possessive with an apostrophe and no additional S are Biblical names (e.g., Jesus' and Moses').

  • No, that's not a different rule. Jesus’ is for two syllables, Jesus’s is for three. You should use the one you say. – tchrist Jul 21 '16 at 20:05