1

This question is about use of the group genitive versus joint possessives in a phrase and/or list.

Where two or more distinct persons, animals, etc., are in the genitive, the group genitive applies only when there is joint possession, responsibility, relationship, as in 'William and Mary's reign' and 'Jack, Tom, and Mary's uncle.' If two separate possessions or other relationships are concerned, each noun must clearly be shown in the genitive.

(Eric Partridge, You Have a Point There, Routledge, 1978)

In this case there is the example of a grammar question on a Jetstream (ESL) test. There are two possible questions, A: "What are Liam's and Noel's jobs?" versus B: "What are Liam and Noel's jobs?" (Answer: They're singers.)

Jetstream claims that 'B' is the correct question, i.e. group genitive. Why would 'A' NOT be correct given that 'jobs' is plural and Liam and Noel each have their own respective jobs? Is this because 'singers' here acts as a type of job and they both share the same type of job? Or could Jetstream be wrong on this one? Or is it an ambiguous case?

Absent the answer, one might not presume when asking the question that both Liam and Noel have the same type of job, so could it still be correct to use the joint possessive form?

The test simply had the following list without possessive forms and the student had to supply the apostrophes and s's where appropriate. The italicized answer in parenthesis was the only correction the system made and it specifically indicated that "What are Liam's and Noel's jobs?" was incorrect.

Is this your umbrella? – No, it isn't. It's my friend's umbrella.

Are these your keys? – No, they aren't. They're Peter's.

What are Liam's and Noel's jobs? (What are Liam and Noel's jobs?) – They're singers.

Is your husband's name Sam? – Yes, it is.

What are your daughters' names? – Their names are Tracy and Lily.

Is this the teacher's computer? – Yes, it is.

That's a nice phone! – Yes. It's Colin's. It's the new Samsung.

When is your parents' anniversary? – It's on November 17th.

tchrist
  • 134,759
  • I don't know if Liam and Noel actually are *twins, but I suppose if I knew for sure they were, I'd have to accept What is Liam and Noel's age?* as a valid question. Mostly though, I'd go for complete rephrasing to avoid having to treat natural language syntax as a kind of "algebraic notation" like this. Note that it's When was* William and Mary's reign?, as opposed to When were Victoria's and George's reigns?* – FumbleFingers Sep 25 '17 at 17:15
  • 2
    Hi johnmartirano, welcome to English Language and Usage Stack Exchange! I did edit your post a bit to add the "grammaticality" tag, as I think that it's appropriate, and to make the title a bit more specific. You can always make edits of your own (for example, if you disagree with any of the changes I made). One question I have: do you have a link to, or are you able to reproduce the wording of the original Jetstream question? Does it clearly say that there is only one grammatical answer, or did it have some wording like "what is the best answer out of the following"? – herisson Sep 25 '17 at 17:43
  • 1
    By the way, here is a related question, but I think FE's comments are more accurate than the answer, so I wouldn't say the linked post contains the complete answer to your question: Possessive form of coordinated noun phrases? – herisson Sep 25 '17 at 17:47
  • Another issue that may arise in this context is distributive or non-distributive interpretation of the plural noun "jobs": some speakers (I'm not one of them, so I can't say how common this is) feel funny about phrases like this, as if they imply that each individual has multiple jobs. See Plural object possessive on ELL – herisson Sep 25 '17 at 18:04
  • Hi @sumelic, I added the context of the question from the exam in my original question. From the comments here I get the sense that either of the answers could be correct. Can anyone clarify? – johnmartirano Sep 25 '17 at 19:20
  • @johnmartirano: Thanks for the edit, that's helpful! I do have the same sense as you, but I don't feel prepared to post an answer to your question yet because I don't have any relevant sources to cite yet. For all I know, some people may in fact consider "Liam's and Noel's jobs" an error, even though I don't by default. I need to do more research to know the answer. It can be dangerous (well, in a very low-stakes kind of way) to just take people's word about things like grammar – herisson Sep 25 '17 at 20:08
  • Just looking at the grammaticality of A and B, and after Partridge, this question is essentially a duplicate. "What are Liam's and Noel's jobs?" asks two separate questions (each with possibly several answers). "What are Liam and Noel's jobs?" asks a single question, predicated on knowing that they were given a list of jobs to do that they had to carry out (arranging division of labour between them). // With the answer supplied, following Partridge, Jetstream is wrong. – Edwin Ashworth Sep 25 '17 at 21:51
  • @EdwinAshworth: I don't follow your argument. "They're singers" can be viewed as a single answer; it could for example be the answer to "What are their jobs?", which is I think a single question and not two separate questions. – herisson Sep 25 '17 at 22:19
  • @sumelic If it was known that they're in the same business, I'd expect (ignoring 'What is it that they do?) 'What is Liam and Noel's job?' with 'job' the massified variant (see Wordreference.com). You wouldn't ask 'What are their occupations?' if you knew they were in the same one. – Edwin Ashworth Sep 25 '17 at 22:33
  • How does this program know my parent's anniversary? – oerkelens Dec 28 '17 at 12:44

0 Answers0