0

I have read somewhere that it is typical of poems such as Nibelungenlied to use a figure of speech which in fact merges two phrases into one by the mean of a common word. An example could be the following:

And then I ate the apple was red as blood

A proper example of this can be found in Nibelungenlied (Adventure 20, 1184, 1-2), where we have

man sach

Ortwin von Mezze | ce Rvedgeren sprach

which means

one saw

Ortwin von Metz | to Rüdiger said

So, is there a name for this figure of speech? Is it a typical figure of other archaic poems such as Beowulf or am I confusing?

Community
  • 1
Alex Doe
  • 101
  • It''s not a common construction in English (it's ungrammatical), and will tend to just make the reader confused. Discussion of ancient German (or Old English) poems is, I think, outside the scope of this website. You could try https://literature.stackexchange.com/ – Max Williams Sep 29 '17 at 14:35
  • Yes, I know that is not proper English and I even think that it is an incorrect construction in almost every language. However I remember that the translation (I don't remember which, exactly) was in English and was faithful to the original and hence strange. A footnote was helping with the understanding. So you are probably right, I should ask at literature.stackexchange.com! – Alex Doe Sep 29 '17 at 14:42
  • Poetry is allowed to break all sorts of rules, so other than being a standard puzzle on Wheel Of Fortune (where they call it "before and after"), I doubt there's a specific name. – Carl Witthoft Sep 29 '17 at 15:26
  • Some definitions of anacoluthon are perhaps broad enough to include this. But I wouldn't use them. – Edwin Ashworth Sep 29 '17 at 16:06
  • @EdwinAshworth I would dare to say that it is the exact opposite of an anacoluthon, since the latter stands for the broken syntactical continuity, while the former sounds as a syntactical gluing. It does not sound as a normal phrase, but it is somewhat fluid, so to say. – Alex Doe Sep 29 '17 at 16:30
  • Sounds a little like a kenning, but only a little. – user888379 Sep 29 '17 at 16:37
  • @user888379 You are right in the sense that the cultural-linguistic context is very similar and, moreover, in my (deceptive) memory it has a specific, "strange" name just as kenningar have. – Alex Doe Sep 29 '17 at 16:47
  • @Alex Doe ODO's 'a sentence or construction in which the expected grammatical sequence is absent' is broad. – Edwin Ashworth Sep 29 '17 at 17:05
  • The word for such a sentence--for grammatical correct sentences (not the op example)--is a garden path sentence. – Stefan Sep 29 '17 at 17:06
  • Possibly zeugma and syllepsis? – Stefan Sep 29 '17 at 17:43
  • In your litterature.se question you have an answer "Wendesatz" - that is the same as "garden path sentence" – Stefan Sep 29 '17 at 20:26
  • @Stefan Now I read it. Well, in the answer it is stated that "Wendesatz" is the German name for that kind of phrase, together with the fact that there is no evident way to know its translation or to find an official reference to it in a literary context (the context for "Wendesatz" seems to be almost only humorous). So I can accept to name my figure of speech "Wendesatz" in English, too, but it is still very different from the "garden path sentence", which is, instead, deceptive and syntactically correct. – Alex Doe Sep 29 '17 at 22:43
  • 1
    You don't have the authority to change the lexis. 'Wendesatz' is not an English word. You'd need to say something like 'an ungrammatical construction such as [example], which in German is called a 'Wendesatz'. I'm not sure why there should be a specific term for such nonsense. – Edwin Ashworth Sep 29 '17 at 23:30
  • I clearly do not have the authority, but, on the assumption that my memories are right and that a kind of strange, ungrammatical construction like that is poetically used in germanic or Anglo-Saxon poems, then we can realistically agree to call such figure "Wendsatz" (after explaining what it is) just as we call "kenning" a kenning, without using heavy circumlocutions. Anyway I am looking for the real source of my question, at least to know the right context of use of this. – Alex Doe Sep 30 '17 at 06:33
  • Alex please, how sure can you be of that translation, please? I don’t remember Beowulf well enough to state this as a fact… hey, I don’t remember any bloody apple, even.

    Still, if you slice that with Occam’s razor, how is it more reasonable And then I ate the apple was red as blood is a poetic construction, not a mistake or even if deliberate, merely poor translation?

    Unless that specific form - possibly that phrase - is repeated, what reason is there to suppose it has meaning?

    More…

     – Robbie Goodwin Sep 30 '17 at 20:50
  • More… And then I ate. The apple was red as blood raises what eyebrows?

    And then I ate the apple, red as blood sparks what complaint?

    And when I ate the apple red as blood spokes what wheels?

    And when I ate the apple was as red as blood queers which pitch?

    If this is an instance of combining two phrases, can you cite either fully by itself?

    Under all that, isn't combining forms of any kind the essence of poetry? Why would that be special to Nibelungenlied or Beowulf, any other particular text, or even school?

     – Robbie Goodwin Sep 30 '17 at 20:53
  • @RobbieGoodwin, mine was just an example explaining the kind of figure I found, so there is no apple in Beowulf (or anyway it is unrelated to my question) and, more importantly, there is no other interpretation in my sentence than the ungrammatical one. I was just asking for the name of the figure of speech, which does not exist, it seems, unless you accept the informal German noun Wendesatz, which is used for concise, mostly humorous sentences precisely like that. – Alex Doe Oct 01 '17 at 10:38
  • Well, thanks, Alex.

    Another time, would you mind providing real examples? Examples which are both accurately quoted, and accurately illustrate what you're asking?

     – Robbie Goodwin Oct 01 '17 at 17:50
  • Eventually, I found one real, accurately quoted example, though it is in Middle High German. I'm editing my post, now. – Alex Doe Oct 01 '17 at 19:34

0 Answers0