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In the questions "Can you imagine Dad and I putting up with this?" is the subject pronoun 'I' correct, or should it be 'me?'

Susie Failer Joffe
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    Also worth reading: Angela was reading to Frank and I vs to Frank and me – which is correct?. ODO and CGEL disagree on whether the former should be considered [ODO] a hypercorrection (and thus by definition incorrect) or, because so many people use it [contrast 'Angela was reading to Frank and they/we/she ...'], standard English [CGEL]. CGEL say the test @sumelic suggests is unreliable. – Edwin Ashworth Apr 15 '18 at 08:41
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    I disagree with the notion that usage should be considered standard solely because so many people use it. I think rather that an awful lot of people are far too content to use (and accept) substandard English. And now I'm reconsidering my decision to get myself a copy of the CGEL. – Bread Apr 15 '18 at 15:17

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There is a tendency, especially in unfiltered, spoken English, to treat a construction like Dad and I as a single unit without any regard to the case of the pronoun, although the same speaker most likely would use the correct pronoun when used alone. Sometimes it even appears in print. This phenomenon has nothing to do with hypercorrection, i.e. a grammar rule applied in the wrong situation, but following a different grammar, though a non-standard one.

This tendency is so strong that it produces oddities such as this:

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So my advice is to continue declining pronouns according to case until such constructions appear with some frquency in edited works rather than, say, BBC comedy scripts or talk shows.

KarlG
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  • Hypercorrection is an interesting topic. Would you classify: Please contact Dad and I as soon as possible? as a hypercorrection. If not, could you give an example? – Shoe Apr 15 '18 at 10:38
  • I would consider that as another instance of what I described: a “frozen” noun phrase. To me, a hypercorrection would be someone learning Strunk and White’s absurd rule of never using which in a restrictive relative clause, coming away with a vague notion to use that, then using the latter word in a non-restrictive relative clause where it doesn't belong. Wikipedia is full of such constructions. Labelling something a hypercorrection is not a value-free description, but often seems patronizing, assuming, for instance, that they not only misapply the rule, but do so to appear more educated. – KarlG Apr 15 '18 at 14:41
  • Thanks. I guess it depends on the intention of the speaker. If she has corrected her initial impulse to write contact Dad and me because of some dimly remembered proscription of and me (as in John and me went to the cinema), then it could be rightly called a hypercorrection. But with hypercorrection, as with many other grammatical terms, grammarians do not agree on what to designate as such. – Shoe Apr 15 '18 at 14:57
  • My point is that hypercorrection can’t explain both contact Dad and I and my wife and I’s anniversay, but the notion of fixed noun phrase and possession as a feature of NPs rather than a case declination of nouns and pronouns does. – KarlG Apr 15 '18 at 15:06
  • I agree. But I think we're looking at the issue from different perspectives: speaker's reasons for choosing a particular phrase vs. the syntactic features of that phrase. – Shoe Apr 15 '18 at 15:14