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When are you supposed to use "what" vs. "which" as a relative pronoun in a relative clause?

According to Purdue's Online Writing Lab:

The most common relative pronouns are who/whom, whoever/whomever, whose, that, and which. (Please note that in certain situations, "what," "when," and "where" can function as relative pronouns.)

But it doesn't mention when you should use "what" in that particular role.

Some other examples are:

Where did you buy the dress what you wore last week?

You're that smart banker what killed his wife.

There was an ESL quiz from Singapore where "what" filled in the blank in the following sentence (and "which" was explicitly marked incorrect by the teacher):

This orchestra, ______ these musicians are from, is very good.

According to "First Book in English Grammar" in 1868:

The pronoun what is a relative, when equivalent to that which; when not, it is an interrogative.

Did this use of the pronoun "what" become "officially" ungrammatical at some point?

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D. Patrick
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  • Voted to close this question because the similar In which vs. what vs. where was closed. – Arm the good guys in America Apr 26 '18 at 14:52
  • That's not fair. First of all, the questions aren't related. Mine is specifically regarding the rules around using relative determiners and the question you referenced is not. Second, I searched myriad sources for an adequate answer and couldn't find one, meaning the answer to this question could improve the knowledge base for the community at large. Third, if you don't think the question is on topic, why not edit it or make a recommendation and I'll edit it? – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 14:56
  • It should be 'which' (certainly none of the others is acceptable), but this is better suited to ELL. (though there have been duplicates on ELU). – Edwin Ashworth Apr 26 '18 at 15:52
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    Answered adequately at Restrictive vs Non-restrictive Relative Clause. Note that a relative determiner is exemplified by 'which' in 'The Freedonia Philharmonic, which orchestra these musicians are from, is very good.' – Edwin Ashworth Apr 26 '18 at 15:57
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    This is not about relative determinatives, but relative pronouns. You are quite right: "which" is the obvious choice here. Though it's not a choice here, the subordinator "that" would also be possible. "Which" and "what" can be relative determiners, but not in your example which already has a determiner, "these". – BillJ Apr 26 '18 at 17:44
  • Hmm. I don't see where in that link @EdwinAshworth it mentions using "what" as either a relative pronoun or as a relative determiner. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:09
  • @BillJ, that confirms my suspicion that the example question is bad. But, what's the rule or heuristic that you can use to know when you should use "which" and when you should use "what" as the relative pronoun or relative determiner? – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:10
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    Why is everyone so eager to close the question rather than answer it. If there was an answer already on the site, someone would likely have been able to link to it. In fact, I'd likely have found it already. Why not just answer the question? It's going to be pretty frustrating if you close the question and I still don't have an answer because Stack Exchange is usually my last resort. What shall I do when you take away my last resort. :) – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:18
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    @EdwinAshworth, did you not notice that the word "what" does not exist at all in the text of the question you said adequately answers this question? Do you literally just go around closing questions for fun? It's adequately answered by an answer that doesn't even have the word in it? That's absurd. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:38
  • I agree sumelic. I'm going to take the quiz out entirely because it doesn't help demonstrate my question. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:42
  • Does the referenced article apply here? https://www.englishgrammar.org/relative-pronoun/ It reads, "what cannot be used as an ordinary relative pronoun after a noun or pronoun." But, then gives examples that don't have a relative clause. It does say, in a relative clause, that you'd use "which." Then other places say "which" applies to a known set of options and "when" applies to an undefined set. I thought maybe that was the difference but I can't find anything that says, "you should use 'what' as the relative pronoun in a restrictive relative clause modifying an infinite set." Or something. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 19:59
  • @sumelic if it is indeed the case that 'what' is NEVER the relative pronoun in a relative clause, then that's the answer I'm looking for. Someone should answer with that (and preferably a reference) and I'll accept it. :) – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 20:02
  • 'Did you not notice that the word "what" does not exist at all in the text of the question you said adequately answers this question?' Your question is still mistitled; you are still asking there about 'relative determiners' but don't give any example containing one. The examples giving 'what' as a relative pronoun (Where did you buy the dress what you wore last week? /

    You're that smart banker what killed his wife.) are ungrammatical and remind one of Ernie Wise.

     – Edwin Ashworth Apr 26 '18 at 20:06
  • @EdwinAshworth, that's probably the answer. Combining several additional sources, it's likely dialectical. The quiz in question was on an ESL quiz in Singapore. They may have adopted the dialectical use of "what" as a relative pronoun outside of an interrogative context. In American English, it appears "what" is only valid as a relative pronoun in interrogatives; however, that makes it hard for me to understand the difference between 'what' as the relative pronoun in a relative clause vs. "he had been robbed of what little money he had." Oh, no . . . I think I get it. Hang on. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 20:13
  • @EdwinAshworth, I think that I may have correctly revised my question to better represent what I'm trying to ask. I think the answer is that it's ungrammatical except in dialectical english to use "what" as a relative pronoun outside of interrogatives. – D. Patrick Apr 26 '18 at 20:19
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    'What' in 'what little money' is a determiner. // 'What' can certainly be used in embedded questions ('I asked what he wanted') as well as regular questions 'What does he want?' // GingerSoftware claims that ' I saw the shoes what you bought last week on sale for less this week.' is acceptable; I won't be visiting it again. so, in answer to your next comment, 'No'. // The 'duplicate' licensed the choice of 'which', which you originally queried. – Edwin Ashworth Apr 26 '18 at 20:19

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I suspect that the quiz was just marked incorrectly: "This orchestra, what these musicians are from, is very good" is certainly not possible in standard English. The use of "what" as a relative pronoun in relative clauses that come directly after an antecedent nominal phrase, e.g. in sentences like "You're that smart banker what killed his wife", certainly exists, but is dialectal and considered non-standard, as mentioned in WS2's answer here.

I think the Purdue Writing Lab's statement that "in certain situations, 'what,' 'when,' and 'where' can function as relative pronouns" refers to "fused relative" constructions. You can find some information on those in the answers to the following questions: Usage of "what", Wh- clauses vs Relative clauses, Ambiguity of "I don't know what you know.", "What might have appalled us when we'd started our trip just a few days ago no longer impressed us much".

herisson
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