31th or 31st is correct?

Question

I just realized that I’ve never needed to use 31th or 31st in my four years English study. So which one is correct, and what about other alternatives?

31th or 31st
101th or 101st
1001th or 1001st

Can I also use that way everywhere in the same way (for example, ordinal numbers in math)?

Very interesting question, unfortunatelly I believe it is general reference, since single link to wikipedia answers it completely. Also, I would suggest you read it completely, from the way you asked the question I would not bet that you got the numbers up to 30th right. I might be wrong and that's what making this an interesting question (for me). — Unreason, Nov 22 '11 at 19:43
@Unreason - Yes, i accept -it's general, but sometimes we really confused because of we're not native speaker and sometimes we need to be sure like this general questions. And look at below, even you guys are not exactly sure just about numbers.. but thanks :) — kuzey beytar, Nov 22 '11 at 20:08
This is very interesting question and you are completely right - the answer that you got from MetaEd is better than what is in general reference (it is shorter and does not go inventing rules where the matter can be explained easily). I hope it will not be closed. — Unreason, Nov 22 '11 at 21:40
I disagree with those votes to close. The answer to OP's first question (which form is "correct"?) may well be trivial, but the second (what about other alternatives?) isn't - as shown by "one hundred and oneth" — FumbleFingers, Nov 22 '11 at 23:15
@FumbleFingers: The OPs question is about ordinal numbers in math, so the 'can I use that way everywhere' is already answered: in math, with constants, you always say the ordinal for '...1' as '... first'. As to generalizations the answer is mixed and spelled out at the answers to '(k+1)th or (k+1)st?'. — Mitch, Nov 23 '11 at 02:55
@Mitch: If you want to be picky. But this question is closed as "general reference", not because it's a dup of the one you've only just linked to. You could have put that link in yourself earlier - given you've answered the other one I doubt you'd forgotten it. Anyway, I don't think the matter is fully covered there, even though I upvoted Neil and Peter's answers. I still think OP has asked three questions here, and the second should not be closed. — FumbleFingers, Nov 23 '11 at 04:44
@FumbleFingers: There are no other alternatives (or rather, what could the alternatives be?). And put -what- link in earlier? I put the link in here as soon as I found it. — Mitch, Nov 23 '11 at 05:47

MetaEd · Answer 1 · 2012-08-01T22:39:42.947

36

The numerals with endings are merely abbreviations for the words written out as text. When in doubt, write the word out. Thirty-first becomes 31st, eleventh 11th, forty-second 42nd, fiftieth 50th, and so on.

edited Aug 01 '12 at 22:39

answered Nov 22 '11 at 19:40

MetaEd

28,488

Thank you +1, this is what I wanted to say. It is incredibly interesting that even wikipedia needs to define set of rules when rule is so simple. – Unreason Nov 22 '11 at 21:33

score 14 · Answer 2 · edited Aug 01 '12 at 22:38

14

31st, etc. are the correct options. When you use ordinal numbers ending in 1, you use first. The only exception is eleventh, because although it ends in 1 its “name” doesn’t contain the word “one” like 21, 31, etc.

edited Aug 01 '12 at 22:38

MetaEd

28,488

answered Nov 22 '11 at 19:09

Irene

12,562

What about dates? 41st or 41th of February is correct? – kuzey beytar Nov 22 '11 at 19:12
2

The only exception seems to be 11: Eleventh (11th) is correct, but Elevenst (11st) is not. – FrustratedWithFormsDesigner Nov 22 '11 at 19:13
5

@dinobeytar: If February had 41 days (it doesn't), then it would be 41st of February. – FrustratedWithFormsDesigner Nov 22 '11 at 19:14
3

Irene's explanation holds up for dates as well. There are also rules for numbers ending in 2 and 3 - use nd for 2 - 2nd, 748392nd; rd for 3 - 3rd, 38743rd. When dealing with teens these do not apply - 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th all the way to 19th are correct. – Mohandas Grande Nov 22 '11 at 19:16
@FrustratedWithFormsDesigner: You're right about 11th. I should have included it. Thanks for pointing it out and completed my answer. – Irene Nov 22 '11 at 19:16
@FrustratedWithFormsDesigner - Haha... Sometimes my brain just stop to work.. But, anyway.. – kuzey beytar Nov 22 '11 at 19:17
11th isn't the only exception: What about 12th (2nd, 22nd..) and 13th (3rd, 23rd..) EDIT Brainfart, I see Mohandas said basically the same thing – Izkata Nov 22 '11 at 21:42

score 8 · Accepted Answer · edited Aug 01 '12 at 22:37

8

I think the 101st Airborne Division (U.S. Army infantry division trained for air assault) is a defining case for “standard” usage.

Having said that, in light of 6800 written instances of 101th I can’t say the alternative is “wrong”.

edited Aug 01 '12 at 22:37

MetaEd

28,488

answered Nov 22 '11 at 19:17

FumbleFingers

140,184
45
294
517

I'd like to see sentences and the context in which you found those written examples... Just because it's been written that way it doesn't mean it's correct. – FrustratedWithFormsDesigner Nov 22 '11 at 19:20
@FrustratedWithFormsDesigner: That's a hot link in the answer. Click on any of the "time period" hotlinks in the chart it leads to, and you'll get a list of specific instances. I know some are rather irrelevant, but there are plenty that exactly cover what we're talking about here. For example, ...successive frames are 97th, 99th and 101th, of which the 101th frame is the current... – FumbleFingers Nov 22 '11 at 19:31
But how would one pronounce 101th? As one hundred oneth? Seems like too much of a stretch to me. – Nov 22 '11 at 19:36
I don't have a problem saying hundred and oneth - particularly if I've just been talking about the hundredth, and I want to emphasise the increment. Bear in mind I'm not saying it's to be preferred - just that quite a few people actually do use this form in certain contexts. – FumbleFingers Nov 22 '11 at 19:40
3

@onomatomaniak, one hundred oneth is exactly how I've (sometimes) heard it. Also, some of those occurrences might be computer-generated: it's much easier to tell a program to tack on a "-th" for all numbers above 3 than to mess around with exceptions or modulo-10 formulas. – Marthaª Nov 22 '11 at 19:41
2

If it had to be pronounced, I would imagine "one-oh-oneth". Although that still sounds awkward. – daxelrod Nov 22 '11 at 19:42
2

@Martha: Thanks for pointing out the relevance of "dumb computer code", but I doubt that applies to many of the written instances I linked to. – FumbleFingers Nov 22 '11 at 19:43
@Marthaª Interesting. I've never heard that before. – Nov 22 '11 at 19:44
1

I agree with Onomatomaniak, it's too much of a stretch to pronounce 101th. Is it possible that the writer got carried away while writing and wrote 101th by mistake? I know it's sheer speculation, but it does sound unnatural. – Irene Nov 22 '11 at 19:46
Differences are "[One] hundred and first" for 101st and "One-oh-oneth" for 101th. I've seen and used it both ways before.. – Izkata Nov 22 '11 at 21:47
@Irene: Here's a couple of dozen written instances of one million and oneth. I honestly don't think a single one of them would be the writer getting "carried away", or being ignorant of "standard practice". It may not be the norm, but writers do sometimes use this form quite deliberately. – FumbleFingers Nov 22 '11 at 23:06
@Martha: I'm starting to feel like a dog with a bone on this one... NGram has only a single written instance of one hundred oneth, and none at all for one-oh-oneth. But it does have 102 results for one hundred and oneth (I'm not even going to look for ...tooth or ...threeth! :) – FumbleFingers Nov 23 '11 at 14:45
@FumbleFingers, I'm not surprised you're not finding many results for "oneth" - in contexts where you're spelling out numbers, you're much more likely to write it as "first". – Marthaª Nov 23 '11 at 14:54
@Martha: I don't think there's any disagreement about what we're much more likely to write. The issue to me is when and why people sometimes opt for non-standard "oneth", which they clearly never do with "twoth?!" or "threeth". – FumbleFingers Nov 23 '11 at 15:14
@Fumble: But they do: wiktionary has a definition for threeth, and you can find several results with a simple Google search (mostly jocular). That, in a nutshell, is why I object to "any word that is used is good English"; it deprives 'good English' of meaning. – Tim Lymington Jan 13 '12 at 15:06
@FumbleFingers: What would be the successor to the nth thing, if not the n-plus-oneth? – supercat Oct 17 '12 at 06:39
@supercat: You're asking me? My answer is the only one out of the three here that doesn't claim the rules are "absolute". But seriously, I don't think n-plus-oneth is a potentially contentious form. It deconstructs in the mind of the speaker as (n+1)th because there's no reason to expect the actual value of (n+1) will end in the digit 1. If, on the other hand, you always spoke in contexts where n could only be 10, 20, 30,...90, I can believe you might be tempted to call its successor the "nth-ty-first". – FumbleFingers Oct 17 '12 at 12:35
@FumbleFingers: Awhile ago, I was thinking of n-plus-oneth when trying to identify rhymes for "month". So far as I know, there isn't really any other plausible rhyme for "month", whereas "orange" has "door hinge", and "purple" has "her pull". – supercat Oct 17 '12 at 14:23
@supercat: There's kunth a nitrogen fixing tree that is commonly grown as an ornamental. – FumbleFingers Oct 17 '12 at 16:01

31th or 31st is correct?

3 Answers3