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What is the difference of meaning between the 2 expressions below which use the subjunctive?

  • I wish he didn't speak so loud.
  • I wish he wouldn't speak so loud.

I cannot see the difference between "I wish...[past simple]" and "I wish...would [verb in infinitive]".

Alan Evangelista
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  • There's an incongruity in using a subjunctive-or-is-it together with a flat adverb. But there's no major difference in meaning between the two sentences; the second connotes displeasure more ('could do better'). – Edwin Ashworth Jul 16 '19 at 18:31
  • One describes a statement of current fact. The other expresses a wish of future action (along with the suggestion that he is capable of choosing to speak more quietly). – Jason Bassford Jul 16 '19 at 18:34
  • In American English, these two constructions are identical in meaning and popular in speech. Don't worry if that doesn't make sense; modality is notorious for being full of exceptions and contradictions, and not making sense. – John Lawler Jul 16 '19 at 18:49
  • Possible duplicate of https://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/80935/would-not-vs-did-not – Bella Swan Jul 17 '19 at 05:03
  • @BellaSwan as far as I understand, it it not a duplicate, my question is about the difference of using these verbs in the subjunctive mood. – Alan Evangelista Jul 17 '19 at 23:28
  • Related – tchrist Jul 22 '19 at 23:55
  • @JasonBassfordSupportsMonica, Can't the first also mean the same as "I wish he hadn't spoken so loud"? If not, what is the reason for it? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 12 '20 at 17:27
  • @MrReality No. The different verb tenses can't mean the same thing. – Jason Bassford Jan 15 '20 at 19:18
  • @EdwinAshworth, can the first sentence also mean the same as "I wish he hadn't spoken so loud"? If not, what is the reason for it? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 18 '20 at 11:56
  • @Mr Reality No. "I wish he didn't / wouldn't ...", like "I wish he wasn't in the habit of speaking ... / throwing / ..." show that 'he' habitually does the thing that is being – here possibly complained about. On the other hand, "I wish he hadn't spoken so loudly / thrown that book / scratched the car ..." are talking about completed events. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 18 '20 at 18:20
  • @EdwinAshworth, so is there any way to get a meaning from that sentence similar to the one present in sentences such as "I agree/recall/believe/etc. he didn't speak so loud" -- where the past tense inflection on verb did does as usual serve to refer to past time, and not to habitual action -- by changing the verb tense or something else? . . . . – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 20 '20 at 11:17
  • [cont.] . . . I think using the past perfect tense there would give a different meaning, viz. the one in: "I agree/recall/etc. he hadn't spoken so loud", whereas I want to express the meaning as present in: "I agree/recall/etc. he didn't speak so loud"... – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 20 '20 at 11:22
  • @Mr Reality "I agree that he didn't speak so loud/ly" means that someone else and I agree that the claim / evidence put forward by someone else about how loudly he spoke is exaggerated. "I wish that he didn't speak so loud/ly" in contrast means "I wish he was in the habit of speaking in a quieter voice". – Edwin Ashworth Jan 20 '20 at 15:19
  • @EdwinAshworth: yes, I understand that. My question is whether there's any way to get past reference for the "wish ... speak" construction, like we get with other verbs e.g. in "I agree/recall/etc. he didn't speak so loud". . . The problem I see is that the construction "I wish he didn't speak..." has a special meaning -- that of a habitual action -- and not a past reference, which is what I want. . . – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 20 '20 at 15:47
  • . . . And I don't think we can use another tense, such as the past perfect ("I wish he hadn't spoken...") there instead, as it naturally corresponds to the past perfect in "I agree/recall/etc. he hadn't spoken...". Am I being clear in expressing what my question is about? – HeWhoMustBeNamed Jan 20 '20 at 15:49
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    I think it's about the different usages the look-alike (a) "I wish he didn't shout" (He shouts, and I would prefer him not to) and (b) "I hope he didn't shout" (He was there, and he may have shouted, but I hope that wasn't the case) {for example} show. English verbs behave very idiosyncratically, and you just have to learn all their usages, I'm afraid. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 20 '20 at 16:45

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