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I once posted an article on the web in which I referred collectively to people from China, Japan, and the Koreas as "Oriental". I got an email from someone who informed me that this is an offensive term and that I should call such people by the specific country of origin -- "Chinese" or whatever -- or collectively as "Asians". She claimed that "Oriental" refers to an object, like "an Oriental vase", and is insulting when applied to a person.

I consider "Asian" inappropriate as it would include Siberians, Afghans, Pakistanis, etc. And of course "Chinese" is unacceptable if you want to include Japanese, Koreans, and related cultures.

So my question is: Do people from this part of the world really find the word "Oriental" offensive? If so, what term do they prefer for themselves? I'd be particularly interested in hearing from someone who actually is of Japanese, Chinese, etc., background, rather than an American or European saying what he thinks someone else thinks.

(Frankly I thought the argument about "Oriental" applying to an object was a little curious. I call myself an "American". I don't find it at all offensive that the same word used to describe me as a human being is also used to describe objects, like "American cars", "American food", etc. Both people and objects can be from the same physical place, so I don't see any problem with using the same adjective to describe both. But maybe there are different connotations to the word "Oriental". )

Mari-Lou A
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Jay
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  • Good question, but off-topic; etiquette not English. (And as such, there is no general answer). – Tim Lymington Dec 15 '11 at 15:49
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    Oriental is quite offensive to many Asian Americans (though I can't say all, but as an Asian American it offends me and my friends). Its antiquated--it used to be acceptable, but now it isn't. I don't have the research in front of me, but itd be like calling an African American the n word and thinking it's still ok –  Dec 15 '11 at 15:53
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    You could try "mongoloid" and see if you get a better response. Frankly I think people need to stop being so easily offended. Unless someone digs up a racist origin for the phrase "oriental" I'll keep using it. – Mr.Wizard Dec 15 '11 at 16:42
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    It should be noted that "oriental" can be as imprecise as "asian". For example, "oriental" has historically been used to refer to Ottoman culture as well. – phoog Dec 15 '11 at 17:30
  • @phoog: I'm aware of the shift in meaning of the word "Oriental" from including Turks and Persians to referring exclusively to Japanese, Chinese, and related cultures. I suppose that would mostly be confusing if using the word in the older sense. I can't really think of a context where people would expect the older definition ... well, maybe an historical novel or something like that. – Jay Dec 15 '11 at 22:05
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    @Jay My wife is from Bosnia (formerly part of the Ottoman empire) so I have been far more exposed to Ottoman-related uses of the word in the last 10 years than to the East Asian sense in the last 20-30 years. Granted, my experience is not typical. In any event, I would argue that the possible ambiguity of "oriental" implies we should avoid the term entirely unless we define it for a specific context. "East Asian" seems to be the best choice: neutral, descriptive, fairly unambiguous. But for any label, there is no doubt some level at which it is overly broad. – phoog Dec 15 '11 at 22:26
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    This is not standardised through the English-speaking world. The most neutral term is "east asian". – Marcin Dec 16 '11 at 00:08
  • I believe that this is similar to another question: http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/34321/does-the-term-asian-have-different-meanings-among-various-english-speaking-cou/34334#34334 – Tom Au Dec 16 '11 at 00:27
  • @phoog: So how is the word "oriental" understood in Bosnia today? Would a modern Bosnian call himself an "oriental" or be unsurprised to be called that? Or would he say, "What? Huh? I'm not Chinese." – Jay Dec 16 '11 at 06:25
  • @Jay The subject of ethnic labels for Bosnians is a touchy one. "Orijental" is not one of those labels, however. Most Bosnians (like 99%+), regardless of religion or ethnic affiliation, consider themselves to be European. I don't speak much Bosnian, but some web searches show that "orijental" is almost exclusively used to refer to the cultural influence of the Ottoman empire, with the apparent implication that it is a foreign influence. In my experience, most Bosnians use "oriental" in English in much the same way. – phoog Dec 16 '11 at 17:07
  • I think a word is only as offensive as the speaker intends for it to be. –  Feb 18 '12 at 06:12
  • @Maynard I would rarely if ever be offended by a statement that the speaker did not intend as an insult. But it certainly seems that there are people out there who are offended by words said in "good faith". Not to mention that there are people who seem to go out of their way to be offended. – Jay Feb 21 '12 at 07:16
  • I've never heard "Asian" used in any context where it was intended to include the middle-eastern and central Asian peoples. I think most people in the US would get your meaning if you just said "Asian". – Ben Collins Jul 15 '14 at 13:26
  • "Oriental" literally means "eastern". This is one of those terms that's offensive not because it's intrinsically insulting, but rather because it was in current use when racism against Asians was rampant, and has thus been "tainted". Compare "colored", an term that modern African-Americans consider offensive, but originally actually came into use as a neutral alternative to more emotionally charged words. – Doug Warren Jul 31 '15 at 19:13
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    Worth noting: in the UK, the term is simply "Oriental", and it is NOT offensive. My wife, who originates in the far East, describes herself as Oriental. It's a neutral term here. – Chris Melville Aug 02 '20 at 08:35
  • @simchona I find it offensive to compare the n-word to "oriental". The idea of using a word for degrading people as subhuman savages worthy of lynching is any where close to "oriental" should offend you more than the word "oriental" itself. Heck, black Americans even claim the n-word as a self-deprecating or endearing term among their own communities. Would you do the same with "oriental"? Just goes to show how the average American is way too quick to jump on the PC bandwagon without thinking about all the nuances of the very words they claim to be "offensive". – Vun-Hugh Vaw Mar 11 '22 at 09:35
  • @Jay I think you will be hard pressed to find a word or phrase for "people from China, Japan, and Korea" that will satisfy all people on the web who consider themselves as being from China, Japan, or Korea, without also offending SOMEONE. – Notso Feb 19 '24 at 01:11
  • @Notso Interesting. We routinely refer to people from France, Germany, Spain, and so forth collectively as "Europeans", and no one appears to be offended by that. They all recognize that they have some common history and culture. Why would people from China, Japan, and Korea object to being grouped together? – Jay Feb 19 '24 at 02:43
  • @Jay I imagine the vast majority people from these countries (or living elsewhere in the world but descended from people from those countries) wouldn't object at all. However, finding a term that results in exactly zero angry emails in response to something posted on the web seems hard. One can only hope to minimize the number (and east Asian probably gets closest). – Notso Feb 19 '24 at 03:00
  • @Jay perhaps it's also worth noting that "european" is not a direct analogue to "asian" in all contexts. "Asian" can mean "someone from the region of Asia" or the (very broad) racial category. By contrast, at least in my experience of the Anglosphere (UK/ZA/AUS), "european" is usually meant in the geographical sense, whereas "white" is used when referring to the racial catgegory. – Notso Feb 19 '24 at 03:09
  • @Jay add that to the fact that Chinese immigration to the UK in large numbers started centuries earlier than it did to the USA, and you'll find it very hard to satisfy every loop in the Venn diagram of what's acceptable to every Chinese, Japanese, and Korean subculture. C.f. the use of "colo[u]red" in South Africa vs. the USA. Absolutely accepted in the former, but offensive to many in the latter. – Notso Feb 19 '24 at 03:16
  • @notso "finding a term that results in exactly zero angry emails" etc: True. With so many people trying so hard to be offended, you can't say "good morning" without offending someone. Personally, I'm willing to make some effort to avoid needless offense ... but I'm tired of jumping through hoops to satisfy people who don't want to be satisfied and never will be. – Jay Feb 19 '24 at 06:57
  • @notso RE "coured" Yes. What makes one word offensive but another with the same dictionary definition is not? Like, "sh*t" is considered crude and offends many, but "defecation" is proper and clinical and offends almost no one. Saying "that word for my group offends me because in the past we were persecuted" resolves nothing. Whatever word we use won't change the fact that your group was persecuted. So whether your complaint is reasonable or not, okay, if you object to a word, tell me what word you prefer. But don't tell me that any word I use is offensive. – Jay Feb 19 '24 at 07:04

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You might be able to use the term "East Asians". Of course, you have to consider whether your audience is sufficiently familiar with the East Asia region or not. Also, Mongolia is at times included as an East Asian country; and to further muddle the boundaries, some people use the term "East Asia" to also include Southeast Asia (not a practice I personally approve of).

In order to avoid any ambiguity you could define the term when you first use it in an article, e.g. East Asians (i.e. people from China, Japan, and the Koreas).

As for "Oriental", I don't believe it carries a negative connotation in most of Europe (but I'm not 100% sure on this). To me, the term carries connotations of romanticism and adventure - probably because of the Orient Express. However, it is definitely an antiquated term and on that basis alone I would recommend you not to use it. The fact that some people (possibly a large amount of people) take offence to the term is another good reason to phrase it differently. Note that both Oxford Dictionaries Online and Merriam-Webster list "Oriental" as having negative connotations. (Also note that they disagree somewhat on the geographical scope of the term, with the former dictionary interpreting it as referring in particular to East Asians and the latter as referring to Asians in general.)

And what do you mean by people from "this part of the world"? Are you referring to actual Chinese, Japanese and Korean citizens or to people who can be ethnically classified as such but are citizens of countries outside of East Asia? I can tell you that my Chinese friends (Chinese nationals) aren't even familiar with the term "oriental" and that they would refer to themselves as Chinese (and that makes perfect sense as you would most likely also refer to yourself as American rather than North American if someone asked). If they'd use a regional term they would definitely go with "Asian" - but as you already noted, this term is too broad to be of much use in many cases.

Bjorn
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  • As to what I meant by "people from ...", I was thinking of people who trace their ancestry to this region, whether presently living there or not. As I'm talking about words to use in English, my question really only applies to English-speaking people, so would be weighted toward people presently living in the U.S., Britain, etc, though I realize there are many people living in Asia who speak English and might possibly come across something that I write. – Jay Dec 15 '11 at 16:41
  • RE "refer to yourself as American": Sure, the broadness of an identification depends on context. If someone asks me where I am from, I might reply "America", "the United States", "Michigan", or "the north side of town" depending on who asked, where, and why. For that matter, I might say, "Earth", if I was aksed by someone from Altair IV. – Jay Dec 15 '11 at 16:45
  • In that case my last paragraph isn't of much use to you. As for people of Asian descent who were born or raised outside of Asia, in my experience they tend to be quite specific - if asked about their ethnic origin at all, of course. Some of my Dutch friends have described themselves as being of Dutch-Vietnamese origin (mixed), Chinese-Indonesian (but Dutch nationality), Hong Kong-born, and plain ethnically Chinese or Indonesian. I don't generally hear any of them referring to themselves with a broad term such as "Asian" when their ethnic origins are concerned - they tend to be very specific. – Bjorn Dec 15 '11 at 17:15
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    @Bjorn because it is possible to be specific when referring to a single person. A person born in Amsterdam might refer to himself as an Amsterdammer, a Hollander, or a Nederlander, but that doesn't make it incorrect to call him European as well. Further, the question is specifically seeking a term that would be broad enough to describe people from China, Japan, and Korea. An analogous question might be a term to describe people from France, the UK, and Spain, in which case "Western European" would do quite well. – phoog Dec 16 '11 at 16:58
  • In Scandinavia the word oriental is only used when referring to objects such as rugs or vases. Applying it to people is considered archaic and offensive. – papirtiger Nov 26 '13 at 19:56
  • "American" is as nebulous as "Asian" in the non-English speaking world. (At least) French and Spanish have words for "United Stateser", as people from The Americas are American. – James Sep 15 '15 at 17:36
  • RE specific: If you asked someone where he is from, he might say "Germany". That doesn't mean it would be inaccurate or inappropriate to refer to him as a "European". Of course people from China can and do distinguish themselves from Japanese, etc. And of course their are times when saying someone is "Asian" would be too vague and general for whatever point you are trying to make. But there are also times when saying "Chinese" would be too specific, when the statement you are making also applies to Koreans and Japanese. – Jay Feb 28 '23 at 23:03
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"Oriental" may not be a slur, but it is outdated, and some people may take offense because it is associated with stereotypes from old-fashioned, unenlightened times. I grew up into the 1980s calling myself "oriental," but would no sooner use it today than "Chinaman" or for that matter "colored."

In the U.S. "Asian" generally refers to East Asians and Pacific Islanders, whereas in Britain it refers to South Asians. It is true that it is inexact, but racial categories always are; thus a light-skinned Arab Egyptian-American is not an "African-American." Incidentally, "Oriental" simply means "eastern." Historically, countries like Russia, Turkey, or Persia were called oriental not inaccurately.

If you're talking about cultural heritage rather than racial identity, however, Asia does break down into broad regions: East Asia, Southeast Asia, South Asia, Central Asia, Southwest Asia. "East Asian" roughly corresponds to the predominantly China-influenced cultures of East Asia (China, Korea, Japan, Mongolia, Taiwan, Vietnam; though geographically Vietnam is of course Southeast Asia).

choster
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    I also grew up in the 80s (and 70s) and "oriental" occasionally slips out of my mouth when I mean to say "east asian", since this was the word that was in wide use until my early adulthood. It's interesting how much discussion this has generated when it really could be quite simple: "proper term for people from eastern Asia?" -- "East Asians". – phoog Dec 15 '11 at 22:29
  • @phoog: Welllll .... the point of my question was that I was looking for a word for people from a specific part of Asia. The words "East Asians" could conceivably be understood to include Pakistanis as they live in the eastern half of Asia. My point was to ask about generally understood and accepted meanings. – Jay Dec 16 '11 at 06:23
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    Pakistan is certainly not in the eastern half of Asia. – choster Dec 16 '11 at 06:25
  • @choster: Yeah, that's what comes of multiple edits and changing my mind about what example to use. How about substituting Kamchatka. That is clearly in "eastern Asia" in the literal sense of the words. – Jay Dec 17 '11 at 05:54
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Outside of the USA, the term Oriental is not offensive at all.

Hellion
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TravelMore Becomeinformed
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    This answer would be greatly improved if there were some basis given for its primary assertion (the accepted answer, for example, links to accepted dictionaries that list the word as having negative connotations). – Hellion Feb 19 '15 at 19:58
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I am Japanese and I don't really find the term "Oriental" as offensive but used in the wrong way or said in a rude way can make it pretty mean sounding. However, others may find it offensive when used under any circumstance.

user121969
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    Your answer would be more meaningful if we knew your age, gender and in which country you live. Thank you. – Mari-Lou A May 17 '15 at 18:20
  • What offends people is hard to explain. I would think that if someone said, in a respectful tone, "Ah, the Oriental gentleman has arrived", there would be no reason to be offended. Well, "Yeah, those subhuman East Asian scum" sounds offensive to me. But what I think is offensive and what other people think is offensive are often unrelated. – Jay May 18 '15 at 13:08
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A person from the Eastern part of Asia would be called East Asian.

I appreciate that you do not use the word "Asian" to describe Chinese people and similar cultures, as Asia has more than 40 countries. The way it is used in the US, Canada, and other countries in the Americas only describes people from China, Vietnam, Japan etc.

People don't know it but it is slighlty offensive to some South Asians and Middle Easterners as they too are part of the Asia continent.

In the UK and other Commonwealth countries, the word "Asian" refers to someone from South Asia (India and surrounding countries).

Personally, I think both definitions are messed up. Asian should be a geographic term and should refer to people who have roots in Saudi Arabia, Siberia, India, China, Nepal, Kazakhs east of the Ural mountains or any of the other Asian countries.

Papa Poule
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Eric
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  • Yes, if someone told me that "Asian people do X", I'd take that to mean not just Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans but also Kazakhs, Siberians, Indians, etc. I'd be quite surprised if someone said "Asian" and it became clear that he was NOT including Kazakhs et al. To my mind, whether it would include the Middle East could be debatable. That would be like someone saying "European" and it turning out that he meant just France, Spain, and Portugal, and not Germany, Poland, Greece, etc. – Jay Jul 31 '15 at 21:44
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I can't recall where I've read this, but one reason that "oriental" might be considered offensive is that it implies a Europe-centric viewpoint. East Asia, after all, is "occidental" relative to the Pacific Ocean.

Alex
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    I'm not offended when people refer to the United States as being in the "Western Hemisphere", even though to reach here from Japan or the Phillipines one travels east. But then, what offends people is not necessarily easy to define or categorize. Like, why are some words for body parts considered polite and proper while others are considered obscene, when they mean the same thing? – Jay Dec 15 '11 at 22:02
  • Very late after-thought: Yes, "oriental" means "eastern", and could be considered "Eurocentric" in that China et al are called "eastern" because they are east of Europe. But a Chinese person might just as well say that his ancestors travelled west from China to reach Europe, so calling China "eastern" is natural and normal. And in any case, "East Asia" is more obviously "directionally subjective" than "oriental". East from where? – Jay Feb 28 '23 at 23:10