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Example:
A. Until the mother came home, the kids haven't arrived.
B. The kids haven't arrived until the mother came home.
C. The kids haven't arrived even until the mother came home.

In my country's language, when the speaker say something like that, most of the time we (the hearer) conclude :
X. (for example-A and example-C) The point of things which the speaker want to tell the hearer is just like that.

While for example-B, it's ambiguous, maybe X - maybe not X but
Y. the speaker want to tell the hearer that the kids haven't arrived until their mother came home then the kids arrived after their mother came home.

In X - whether the speaker know that after the mother came home the kids arrive or not is not the point. So if someone ask the speaker : "so, did you mean that the kids arrive after the mother came home?", it's possible that the speaker's answer is : "No. I don't know whether the kids arrive or not after the mother came home. What I know is just that the kids haven't arrive until their mother is home".

In Y, it's a sure thing that the speaker know that the kids arrive after the mother is home.

Since I don't know what English speaking country view at those three examples, hence the question.

I'm very sorry for my bad grammar on the example.
Just now I searched the internet looking for a similar sentence and I found one in this link.

I don't know if I have to correct the example before or just leave it like that and write the new example. Anyway I choose the later.

A. until he reached his room, she did not wake up and call him
B. she did not wake up and call him until he reached his room
C. she did not wake up and call him even until he reached his room
D. even until he reached his room, she did not wake up and call him

The question is still the same.

karma
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    None of the examples are quite idiomatic, and the word until may not be the problem. – Yosef Baskin Oct 22 '20 at 16:58
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    The tenses are wrong in your examples. You need 'didn't arrive' in all three, then the word "even" should be deleted from C. This page may be helpful in explaining the usages of "until": https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/until – Old Brixtonian Oct 22 '20 at 17:57
  • @OldBrixtonian The main problem with the tenses in the examples is that they are mixed. The mother's arrival is in the past but the children's arrival is in the present. Personally I find it difficult to get past that error. – BoldBen Oct 22 '20 at 21:38
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    What @OldBrixtonian said - or A could be When the mother came home, the kids had not arrived [yet]. – Kate Bunting Oct 23 '20 at 08:08
  • Dear commentators, please review my edited post. I hope the grammar is correct now. – karma Oct 23 '20 at 19:08
  • @KateBunting, how about if the sentence is like this : "until he reached his room, she did not wake up and call him". As in my OP, the understanding in my country is : the speaker didn't mean to tell about what happen before and what happen after ---> BEFORE he reached his room and when he reached his room, she did not wake up and call him, AFTER he reached his room, she did wake up and call him. In my country, it's rare that from that sentence, the hearer concludes : "oh... that means the speaker also want to tell that after he reached his room, she did wake up and call him".. – karma Oct 23 '20 at 19:33
  • @OldBrixtonian, I found in the internet an English sentence which I put it as point D in the new example. I hope the grammar is correct in that sentence. Thank you for the link, I just read it. It seems the grammar is not correct in that sentence, because the writer put "even until" in the beginning of the sentence while actually it's not allowed. Please CMIIW. How about if the sentence is : "she did not wake up and call him even until he reached his room" ? – karma Oct 23 '20 at 19:47
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    B is much more idiomatic than A. I think the version beginning with until would only work if both parts referred to 'him' - Until he reached his room, he did not know that a letter had been left there for him. – Kate Bunting Oct 24 '20 at 08:26
  • @KateBunting, so if the speaker say "Until he reached his room, he did not know that a letter had been left there for him" can the hearer 100% sure that the speaker want to say also (indirectly) that "after he reached his room, he knew that a letter had been left there for him". – karma Oct 28 '20 at 16:59
  • Yes, the sentence clearly implies that the subject went to his room and found an unexpected letter there. – Kate Bunting Oct 28 '20 at 17:13
  • @KateBunting, Ok - thanks, Kate. In an English language, do the speaker has to mention if he didn't know what happen after "he reached his room" ? So, the speaker must say something like this : "Until he reached his room, he did not know that a letter had been left there for him. After he reached the room, I didn't know if he finally knew that a letter had been left there for him because I left the room" in order the hearer won't think "oh... you also want to tell that after he reached the room, he knew a letter had been left there for him". – karma Oct 28 '20 at 17:34
  • But that is exactly what the hearer will understand! You are making this unnecessarily complicated. If the speaker doesn't know what happened, they will not use that sentence. They might say something like 'I discovered afterwards that he had found a letter in his room.' – Kate Bunting Oct 29 '20 at 09:07
  • @KateBunting, thanks for your explanation. I really appreciate it. – karma Oct 30 '20 at 16:29

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