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I came across this sentence on the ACT:

It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians, and others, and used for over 3,000 years.

I can see that the comma in "and others, and used" is helpful for a reader to parse the sentence, but I don't see that the comma is necessary or, frankly, even allowable. My understanding is that you should put a comma and conjunction in between two independent clauses, and you should not put a comma in between a subject and a verb, as in "I went to town, and saw the circus." Yet, that is precisely the sort of comma that I see in the sentence.

As far as I know, this is the way the comma should work:

  1. I lost at cards and regret it. (no comma)
  2. I lost at cards and checkers and regret it. (no comma)
  3. I lost at cards, checkers, and even our drinking game and regret it. (commas for the list)

The structure of the ACT sentence is similar to 3. What am I missing?

Confused
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  • Sorry but what is "on the ACT"? Not a test I'm familiar with. – Lambie Jun 25 '21 at 19:51
  • The ACT is a standardized test equivalent to the SAT (tests taken as part of college applications in the USA). The sentence I've shown here is what the correct answer looks like. Admittedly, I think the other answer choices committed worse offenses, but this one still looks wrong to me. – Confused Jun 26 '21 at 01:37
  • Where did you get your #3 example? It is quite unnatural. – Tinfoil Hat Jun 26 '21 at 03:43
  • This has me curious - WHAT was was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites and Persians? – Pete Jun 26 '21 at 08:04
  • Ok so the sentence contains a serial comma (aka Oxford or Harvard comma). That means that there is a comma before the last item in a series: It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians, and others, instead of It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians and others, Also, there is one after others as it is a compound sentence joined by and. – Lambie Jun 26 '21 at 12:52
  • @TinfoilHat I just made up the example. I agree it is unnatural, but I also think the original sentence is unnatural. So, I have nothing helpful to say on that matter (haha). – Confused Jun 26 '21 at 13:03
  • @Lambie My problem with the comma is that there are not two independent clauses to justify its use. A quick search of "compound sentence" leads me to believe it also has to have two independent clauses, but I know the first internet search resources that pop up can often be wrong about grammatical rules. I would be interested to hear more about what you mean! – Confused Jun 26 '21 at 13:08
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    Does this answer your question? Punctuation of compound predicate where the first item ends in a list? @Cerberus's answer is balanced; 'rules' hereabouts are rules of thumb, not Papal fiats. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 26 '21 at 13:37
  • @Lambie OP's example is not a compound sentence. It is a sentence with a compound predicate. Comma 'rules' are not quite the same. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 26 '21 at 13:39
  • The reason the ACT sentence is written like that with the two last commas is because of the Oxford comma. Anyway, "it was adopted and used" with or without commas is a compound sentence (a sentence with more than one subject OR predicate). – Lambie Jun 26 '21 at 13:42
  • I should add that ELU looks at the global picture, whereas certain exam bodies may be more prescriptivist and only accept answers their particular set of moderators think correct. // 'It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians, and others and used for over 3,000 years.' is the only one I feel uncomfortable with. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 26 '21 at 13:58

1 Answers1

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Your intuition is correct and you are not missing anything. Sharp eye. A formation of the above sentence that uses commas correctly would look like this:

It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians, and others and used for over 3,000 years.

So let's review. Commas are required to separate list items with the terminal item comma (the Oxford comma) potentially optional depending on style guide prescriptions. However! The list doesn't end with the Persians. It ends with "others", and "others" should fall within the range of the list, at least in formal writing.

Next is the conjunction "and". A comma is required when a conjunction joins independent clauses. However! The phrase "used for over 3,000 years" is not a clause! Therefore a comma should not be used with the conjunction "and".

R Mac
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  • That's right about the conjunction but that last comma does help readability. In other words, if you remove that comma and the serial comma. you get: It was adopted by the Akkadians, Hittites, Persians and others and used for over 3,000 years. Perhaps that would be better. – Lambie Jun 26 '21 at 12:59
  • @Lambie So, you see the comma as optional, then? Even though it would be a great offense to the grammar gods to write something like "I walked, and hiked," putting a comma just before a conjunction and verb? – Confused Jun 26 '21 at 13:10
  • Nope: You either have to use the Oxford comma and the one after the word others, or not use either of them. It is the use of the Oxford comma that begs for the other one. – Lambie Jun 26 '21 at 13:41
  • @Lambie At least we agree on this. The mantras 'Use a comma before coordinators [of main clauses]' {see Comma before 'and' in compound sentences} and 'Never use a comma before the second predicate in a sentence with two' {see marked duplicate} are hyperprescriptivist. – Edwin Ashworth Jun 26 '21 at 13:48
  • A comma separating independent clauses when joining with a conjunction is useful because it tells the reader of the latter clause to look for a new subject rather than use the subject of the earlier clause. I don't see how that constitutes hyperprescription. Anyway, the ACT is a college admission evaluation, and the "comma before a conjunction when separating independent clauses" rule is a big one in school curricula and is required under MLA, Chicago, and Strunk and White style guides. You're setting a student up for trouble to call that hyperprescriptivist (implying they can ignore it). – R Mac Jun 26 '21 at 14:10
  • I am not sure there are two independent clauses. For me, it reads: It was adopted [by x] and used [for y time]. For me, there is a compound verb and one subject.... – Lambie Jun 26 '21 at 14:19
  • I know. The rule does not apply. That's what I said in the actual answer. :) – R Mac Jun 26 '21 at 14:37