1

Not sure how to name this correctly, but there seems to be a trend of adding an "of" to phrasal verbs that ends in "off" and I'm wondering if that is, in fact, correct English.

Example from here:

I make a fortune off of them.

Shouldn't the correct usage be

I make a fortune off them.

Alex Ixeras
  • 111
  • 4

1 Answers1

4

This use goes back to the 15th century (and Shakespeare used it), but as the OED says of it "In later use colloquial (nonstandard) and regional".

So the "trend" of using it has been going on for more than six hundred years; but the trend of regarding it as "incorrect" only seems to go back one or two hundred.

Colin Fine
  • 77,173
  • So, it appears it would be correct to use it if I spoke Shakespearean English, but languages are living and I thought it changed away from it…unless the mummy returned. And just because it was used 600 years ago, it doesn't mean it's correct usage nowadays. So, is it only "regarded" as incorrect or is it in fact incorrect? – Alex Ixeras Jul 08 '21 at 13:15
  • @AlexIxeras - 'So, is it only "regarded" as incorrect or is it in fact incorrect?' Is there a difference? How can one tell? – Michael Harvey Jul 08 '21 at 13:29
  • "Correct" is a social judgment, like wearing the "right" clothes or using the "right" fork for your dinner. Which set of fashion gurus do you wish to follow? – Colin Fine Jul 08 '21 at 13:31
  • If I were to write my (English) sentences back to front or in Old English these days I could claim this to be correct for the 21st century, but it wouldn't be. There is some sort of agreed standard, I suppose. I agree that frequent general use by the general public could legitimise or elevate some expression but in my case here there is something that doesn't sound right to me. Maybe it's because English is a second language to me, but then again, us "ESL"ers often learnt it more textbook like. – Alex Ixeras Jul 08 '21 at 13:43
  • @AlexIxeras There surely are things that are hard to call other than incorrect, eg "I'm making a fortune of off them". But 'off of' is very idiomatic for me. I'm not a professional writer or editor, but I wouldn't bat an eye at 'off of' (though either 'off of' or 'off' is more characteristic of things being spoken rather than writing. – Mitch Jul 08 '21 at 14:03
  • 1
    Citations and a clearer explanation might improve the quality of this answer. – GArthurBrown Jul 08 '21 at 14:20
  • 3
    Off of is the conventional spelling of the frequent practice of adding an epenthetic central vowel (schwa /ə/) at the end of monosyllabic prepositions like off and out. The zombie rule that forbids off of but allows out of is, like split infinitives and It is I, a product of upperclass English parsons with too much time on their hands and strange ideas about reforming the lower classes by correcting their speech. It's stupid and irrelevant, and should be ignored. Go right ahead and say and write off of any time you want. It's your language, not Lindley Murray's. – John Lawler Jul 08 '21 at 15:23
  • 2
    While I agree with your comment in general, @JohnLawler, I think your characterisation of the expression as a phontic variant is wrong, at least for BrE. I got it off of a friend is common in various parts of the UK, and the /v/ is definitely present. – Colin Fine Jul 08 '21 at 15:32
  • 1
    Probly true; nuts and bolts get used every which way. But I've found it useful to keep an eye on epenthesis, like If you hadna done that, theyda left, which is normal speech, but doesn't have a good prose translation. – John Lawler Jul 08 '21 at 15:37
  • I can't quite follow why forbidding off of but allowing out of is a zombie rule, but leave that to the native speakers. In the example I got this off of a friend my understanding is that here the off is the same or similar to from, and we wouldn't say I got this from of a friend. – All this discussion makes me wonder if expressions like off of are regionally used. Despite that, off of sounds plain wrong to me, but we're also living in a time where words like there and they're is used liberally and almost interchangeably. One day those might become common and accepted too. – Alex Ixeras Jul 09 '21 at 05:13
  • 1
    The answer @AlexIxeras is that language is what it is, not what somebody thinks it ought to be (whether for reasons of logic or anything else). Prepositions from, off, and out of are standard (but off is standard only in a spatial sense). Prepositions out, off (in an extended sense) and off of are non-standard. – Colin Fine Jul 10 '21 at 12:43