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The following is an extract from a passage, the emboldened sentence being the phrase of interest:

Coming in a minimalistic white pouch, the meal-replacement powder blends things like rice, peas and flaxseed. Add water, shake it up, and there’s your lunch, dinner or breakfast, or all three. I ordered a week’s supply, telling friends about my exciting discovery. Comments ranged from outraged to encouraging (‘this makes a lot of sense’). My mum suggested I just ate a banana.

Although it sounds harmonious, I'm interested in knowing why exactly the word "ate" was chosen to be used as opposed to its present-tense counterpart (eat). Which grammar rule has a hand in this and where can I read more about it?

EDIT: To clarify, this has been taken from a CAIE (Cambridge) examination question insert. The entire passage (text A) can be found on page 2 of this document (and the sentence on line 10).

Shane --- ㄟツ ㄏ
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    It sounds wrong to me - I would use eat. Right or not, I would imagine it was chosen because the writer thought it was correct and/or liked the sound of it. – nnnnnn Nov 06 '21 at 03:13
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    What is the intent of the passage? Is their mother encouraging them to eat a banana, or suggesting that they already did? – Barmar Nov 06 '21 at 05:48
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    If she's encouraging, then it should be present tense. – Barmar Nov 06 '21 at 05:48
  • I've edited the question a tiny bit to make this clearer. – Shane --- ㄟツ ㄏ Nov 06 '21 at 05:52
  • If the mother was comparing the child's completed consumption of the powdered food with eating fresh food she might say "I suggest you just ate a banana". If she was comparing the unopened packets of powdered food to the fresh food she might say "I suggest that you just eat a banana". I suspect that the intention of the writer was to convey the second suggestion in which case the writer has made a grammatical error. Don't look for a rule, people make mistakes all the time, particularly in online chats. – BoldBen Nov 06 '21 at 08:34
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    I don't find the tense at all odd. The anecdote is told in the past tense (I ordered... Comments ranged... My mum suggested...) She probably said "Why don't you eat a banana?", but in reported speech this becomes 'ate'. – Kate Bunting Nov 06 '21 at 09:03
  • Yes, in total agreement with Kate. The mother said "I just ate" in reported speech that refers to the past. A banana was a better healthier option than eating a sachet of a dehydrated meal. – Mari-Lou A Nov 06 '21 at 11:49
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    Frankly, I don't think that the relative clause would be in the past. I suggest you leave later. I suggested you leave later. – Lambie Nov 06 '21 at 16:41
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    @Lambie this is an extract taken from a Cambridge exam paper. In British English the subjunctive is rarely used beyond fixed phrases such as "God save the queen" and "be that as it may". People will say something similar to “He suggested that she talked to her boss” which I know is anathema to many American speakers. – Mari-Lou A Nov 07 '21 at 10:11
  • @Mari-LouA I did read the question; I do know where it comes from. I do know the Brits love that past tense. In fact, it can be either in British English: https://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv201.shtml – Lambie Nov 07 '21 at 13:08
  • To me (I'm an aging Brit) 'My mum suggested that I just ate a banana' sounds more natural than 'My mum suggested that I just eat a banana' but I'd use 'My mum suggested that I should just eat a banana'/'My mum suggested that I should just have a banana every day'. But I'm aware that in the US 'that' and periphrastic 'should' are not so much in vogue. – Edwin Ashworth Nov 08 '21 at 10:48
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    Note that 'Dave's mum suggested [that] he just eat a banana' is a different sentence from 'Dave's mum suggested [that] he just eats a banana'. The latter uses present simple and means that she's putting forward an idea of what may be true to her listeners. The former involves her recommending a course of action to her son. With 'My mum suggested I just eat[/ate] a banana', we can't tell which sense is intended without further context. – Edwin Ashworth Nov 08 '21 at 11:00
  • Bad English on an exam paper. What a shocker. –  Nov 08 '21 at 21:04
  • In American usage this makes it sound like the mom is just reporting that the writer had eaten a banana (like it could appear in the sentence "my mother suggested I just ate a banana, but I knew that had been hours ago"). I guess it's different there. – Casey Nov 20 '21 at 04:07
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    The verbs recommend, advise, ask, demand, insist, prefer, propose, recommend, request, suggest, and urge), when used with a noun clause are followed by a bare verb with no change in tense. https://esllibrary.com/blog/recommend [the so called "subjunctive"]. Regardless of the tense of the first verb. – Lambie Dec 19 '21 at 15:19
  • @Global Charm English (UK) usage on a UK English exam paper. Why shocking? The 'British English' tag, not the 'American English' tag, is selected (Nov 8 @ 10:19). – Edwin Ashworth Dec 19 '21 at 16:33
  • @Lambie (et alia): Note, the passage in the linked exam booklet is written in an informal, first-person style; the second excerpt is even more conversational ("Apparently, there’s now a more hi-tech, whizz-bang way of delivering the same nutrients more efficiently in the form of gels and powders. Yum."). Although the question as formulated asks whether this usage is governed by a "grammar rule," it seems that the gist of it (and of the dialogue) is about whether this is in fact an established usage, sanctioned or not, or an error. – Andy Bonner Dec 22 '21 at 03:17
  • @AndyBonner We are not given the questions associated with the paragraph. But think about this: The entire paragraph describes the powder. It sounds pretty awful and the last sentence is: My mum suggested I just ate a banana. So the exam question would be: What is wrong with that sentence? The guy's mum obviously suggested he just eat a banana. If you people had taught English, you would know about the bare forms after certain verbs like suggest and advise. (See my previous comment.) I suggest you read an advanced English language learners exercise book with those verbs in it. – Lambie Dec 22 '21 at 16:47
  • should just eat is also OK/ "ate" is not ok in any English. – Lambie Dec 22 '21 at 17:42

3 Answers3

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I was going to write up an answer citing The Cambridge Grammar of The English Language (by Huddleston and Pullum) on what H&P call covert mandatives. But I found out that @Araucaria already wrote an excellent answer on ELL more than three years ago.

I suggest you go read that answer. [subjunctive or covert mandative!]

One notable point of the answer along with the comments is that although H&P claims "Clear cases of the covert construction are fairly rare", which claim is inclusive of British English usage, the actual British English corpus data suggests that covert mandatives are more productive than should-mandatives (...that I should just eat a banana) as well as subjunctive mandatives (...that I just eat a banana) . [Note in this sentence "are more productive" is not a covert mandative.]

This corpus data seems to be in line with my own limited exposure to British English where I've noticed some British prime ministers and politicians use covert mandatives in their public speeches.

So I find it perfectly fine for a test based on British English to use covert mandatives.

JK2
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  • I'm confused—does this or the linked answer address the choice of tense between "ate" and "eat"? Or is this just addressing the omission of "should"? The focus of the OP questions seems to be on "ate." – Andy Bonner Dec 22 '21 at 03:15
  • @AndyBonner Have you even read the linked answer? The linked answer does address the past tense use in the that-clause when the main verb is also the past tense. And that's called 'covert mandatives'. – JK2 Dec 22 '21 at 03:28
  • You’re right, I read it too quickly. – Andy Bonner Dec 22 '21 at 03:38
  • You either have to use should eat or eat. "ate" is not an option in any English. – Lambie Dec 22 '21 at 17:42
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    @Lambie Says who? – JK2 Dec 23 '21 at 03:43
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By instinct, I would not use ate in that sentence.

British English prefers the structure with should + infinitive after suggest in the past. Cambridge does not even record the use of past tense after suggested:

Suggest + that-clause When we suggest an action to someone, we can use a that-clause. In informal situations, that is often left out:

  • I suggest (that) you leave here around four o’clock. The traffic gets very bad from about 4.30 onwards.

When suggest is in the past, we can use should in the that-clause:

  • Her doctor suggested that she should reduce her working hours and take more exercise.

However, the use of past tense after suggested is not banned. On Englishgrammar you will find a description of how the verb suggest behaves. Among other things it says:

When the verb in the main clause is in the present tense, we can use a present tense in the that-clause after suggest. When the verb in the main clause is in the past tense, a past tense is possible in the that-clause as well.

  • His doctor suggests that he stops smoking.
  • His doctor suggested that he stopped smoking.

In both these examples that can be omitted.

At the question if the sentence

The boss suggested we left early yesterday.

is correct, BBC answers:

It is perfectly correct. You could also say:

  • The boss suggested (that) we leave early.
  • The boss suggested (that) we should leave early.

All these forms are possible with little or no difference in nuance, although the subjunctive form, suggested we leave, is a touch more formal.

There is yet another site that states that past simple is correct in British English after suggested:

In British English, we may use both the present simple and past simple tenses.

  • Mark suggested that I called him.

All that being said, I think your sentence may well be called a covert mandative, but it can also be reported speech at the same time. Gngram finds instances of past after suggested, so it does exist. If the mother said

I suggest you just eat a banana.

the reported speech can occur as

My mum suggested I just ate a banana.

although according to most grammars the only options of reported speech are considered the following

  • My mum suggested I just eat a banana.

or

  • My mum suggested I should just eat a banana.
fev
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  • What do you mean the OP's sentence could be reported speech (as opposed to a covert mandative)? I'm asking this because you're implying that covert mandatives and reported speeches are mutually exclusive, which they aren't. Covert, subjunctive or should, all mandatives can occur after a reporting verb such as suggest, order, demand, etc. – JK2 Dec 27 '21 at 05:01
  • @JK2 Yes, you are right, I should add "at the same time". Will edit. – fev Dec 27 '21 at 10:45
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[Why was] "ate" was chosen to be used as opposed to its present-tense counterpart (eat).

It is reported speech. Your mum actually said "Why don't you just eat a banana?"

Greybeard
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