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Is there any occasion upon which in British English, the ‘z’ is normally used and the ending ‘ise’ would be incorrect?

FeliniusRex - gone
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james deas
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    Hello, james. (1) 'British English' is a misnomer here (at least), as both the -ize and the -ise spelling choices are common in the UK. (The former is used by perhaps 40% of Brits.) See The use of -ize and -ise in the UK. (2) The request for lists is not on-topic on ELU, though s vs z in ... has two useful ones. (3) the verb 'prize' is still normally distinct from 'prise' amongst Brits: – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 11:47
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    'Some words take only the -z- form worldwide, for example capsize, seize (except in the legal phrases to be seised of or to stand seised to), size and prize (only in the sense of winning, not as forcing open with a lever). These, however, do not contain the suffix -ize.' [Wikipedia] – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 11:48
  • Yes Prize is a good example of 'ize' being standard in my experience. Standardisation by algorithm (spell checkers) is causing me to question if i should rather have written 'Standardization' – james deas Dec 20 '21 at 11:54
  • I thought the preferred American spelling of the verb meaning to pry (off a lid) was prise (and to prize was to value/cherish), but m-w says I'm wrong. – DjinTonic Dec 20 '21 at 12:27
  • If your spell-checker is set to US conventions, it will probably reject/'correct' -ise, -ising, -isation etc spelling variants throughout. Even with UK conventions, the -ise etc spellings are far from universal. I always add the -ise variant to the 'dictionary' when it's flagged, as I choose this practice. It's almost universal in 'BrE' crosswords. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 12:27
  • This is based upon a misconception. When I was doing English O Level I was always taught that -ize is the British norm and -ise is only used in the USA. Any homework submitted with -ise would be marked down. Since then, the lines have blurred to make the distinction irrelevant. – Chenmunka Dec 20 '21 at 12:29
  • @Chenmunka Your teachers were apparently the ones with the misconception. Google 1-grams for realise/realize in their 'British English' corpus, 1800-2019. O-Levels 1951 - 1997. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 12:36
  • @EdwinAshworth: Maybe so. But the question is still likely to fall into the realms of center/centre and color/colour arguments where common usage has changed over time. – Chenmunka Dec 20 '21 at 12:38
  • Boswell's Life of Johnson, the novels of Smollett, Sterne, etc, are full of -ize endings - surprized, realized, patronized, etc. Even surprize (verb). – Michael Harvey Dec 20 '21 at 13:13
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    I have a detailed answer in response to one such question on vaporize/vaporise. In brief, this documents the fact that in the early 20th century "ize" not "ise" was the standard form in British English (but, I would add "yse" not "ize"), and how "ise" became common. The topic has also been discussed numerous times, as a search of the site will show. I am therefore voting to close. – David Dec 20 '21 at 14:17
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    This should answer your question: Is "vapourise" considered incorrect, even in British English? – David Dec 20 '21 at 14:18

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Is there any occasion upon which in British English, the ‘z’ is normally used and the ending ‘ise’ would be incorrect?

The OED uses the -ize form as the primary word in its relevant entries. Although not "official" the OED is recognized/recognised as a dictionary "of record" - with that authority -ise and -ize are correct.

Greybeard
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  • A 2011 corpus study by Shin'ichiro Ishikawa, Professor of Applied Linguistics at the School of Languages & Communication, Kobe University concluded: 'Our corpus-based studies have revealed that (1) –ize is used exclusively in American English, while both –ize and –ise are used in British English; (2) ... while –ize had been used more in the past, ... now –ise is becoming standard in British English ....' What corpora does OED use? OP asks about 'BrE'. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 16:15
  • @EdwinAshworth What corpora does OED use? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_English_Corpus. Please include the research you’ve done, or consider if your question suits our English Language Learners site better. Questions that can be answered using commonly-available references are off-topic. :) – Greybeard Dec 20 '21 at 16:54
  • Thank you. To quote, 'It includes language from the UK, the United States, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, the Caribbean, Canada, India, Singapore, and South Africa. The text is mainly collected from web pages; some printed texts, such as academic journals, have been collected to supplement particular subject areas. The sources are writings of all sorts, from "literary novels and specialist journals to everyday newspapers and magazines and from Hansard to the language of blogs, emails, and social media".' So not 'BrE' specific at all, especially if done on a pro-rata basis. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 20 '21 at 19:46
  • The entries for suffixes "-ise" and "-ize" are as follows: 1. -ise, suffix1 (see -ize suffix). -- A frequent spelling of -ize suffix, suffix forming verbs, which see. 2. -ize Forms: -ise, -ize. -- Etymology: Cognate with French -ise-r, Italian -izare, Spanish -izar, < late Latin -izāre, -īzāre... The entries clearly imply that "-ize" is the suffix of choice (it being the fuller entry), but that there is always an option... – Greybeard Dec 21 '21 at 12:13
  • But 50% more Brits seem to choose 'not the suffix of choice', so is OED being prescriptive or telling everyone to follow trends in say Indian English? – Edwin Ashworth Dec 21 '21 at 12:50
  • It is trusting to the good sense of the English speaking public... – Greybeard Dec 21 '21 at 16:07
  • So you're ducking the issue that OED doesn't merely address UK usage, and is out of sync with this here. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 22 '21 at 15:25
  • You seem to have misunderstood - I probably was not clear enough. The OED puts the "-ize" version first. I suspect that the original lexicographer disagreed (quite rightly) with the 19th century "-ise" idea, rather than consciously choosing Noah Webster's spelling or being dictated to by numbers in a corpus - we see this in the entry "colour | color, n.1" where the BE spelling is first. To the researcher, this should provide a clue... – Greybeard Dec 22 '21 at 21:44
  • Saying that -ize forms are superior to -ise forms in British usage is falling foul of the etymological fallacy. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 23 '21 at 14:26
  • @EdwinAshworth you have extended your argument to words that are not there and meanings that do not exist. Try to find the word "superior" in anything the OED says on the matter - it is a preference. Preference does not indicate superiority. – Greybeard Dec 23 '21 at 15:04
  • 'The entries clearly imply that '-ize' is the suffix of choice'. An estimated 60% (or above, Ishikawa's 2011 findings) of people using 'BrE' in written etc form, one assumes also having 'good sense', select '-ise' as the 'suffix of choice'. – Edwin Ashworth Dec 23 '21 at 15:43