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I want to preface this that I am not an English native speaker but I am fluent in the language. I am organizing an event and one of our foreign guests insists on not being called Mister Family_name because he sees it as disrespectful. He has both a PhD and an hereditary title. My boss doesn't want to use Doctor Family_name because it's a professional title. The guest’s nobiliary title does not map to any noble hierarchy in the English language. He's simply "not-commoner".

As I understand it, "Mister" is only appropriate when the person has no titles. I don't like formalities but I despise incorrect formalities.

What is the appropriate way to address a foreign noble?

Greybeard
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Avogado
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  • Countries and languages have different titles for written or spoken addresses. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forms_of_address_in_the_United_Kingdom for an idea of how to address nobility in the UK. – rajah9 Apr 23 '22 at 14:50
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    Have you tried asking the foreign guest how he would like to be addressed? If he's indicated that Mr is unacceptable, he is presumably able to comment on this. (Generally if in doubt how to refer to someone, ask them.) It would also be useful to know the title and/or country, although I appreciate that might be top secret information. – Stuart F Apr 23 '22 at 17:00
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    I second @StuartF suggestion. In my experience, most sensible people will not be offended by someone asking how they wish to be addressed, and you may even earn some extra respect by asking. – Austin Hemmelgarn Apr 23 '22 at 22:33
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    What is his exact title re his being a "noble"?? Is he a prince? Or a duke? Or something like that? By the way, it's Mr. not mister. Prince Waggy Wag, Phd. However, he might wish to reconsider unless his British. And we do say: Dr. for people with Phds. – Lambie Apr 23 '22 at 22:56
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    @Lambie - If his title doesn't correspond to any hierarchy in the English language, as the OP says, he obviously isn't British! – Kate Bunting Apr 25 '22 at 07:26
  • @KateBunting Well, it has piqued my curiosity. Maybe he is a sultan or a maharajah. There are titles in English used for stations [ha ha] from non-Anglo/American countries. – Lambie Apr 25 '22 at 15:34
  • I’m voting to close this question because it's about politeness protocols rather than standard language usage. – Edwin Ashworth Apr 26 '22 at 18:29
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    While the question, as formulated, involves some considerations of politeness, at its core is a question about English language: how should one render, in an English context, a title that has no obvious equivalent in English-speaking countries. – jsw29 Apr 27 '22 at 20:03

5 Answers5

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This question seems to be more about etiquette than English

One of our foreign guests insists on not being called Mister Family_name because he sees it as disrespectful. He has both a PhD and an hereditary title.

Then you should use the title in its foreign form. This is perfectly acceptable. Your guest will advise what this is.

My boss doesn't want to use Doctor Family_name because it's a professional title.

Your boss is wrong on two counts:

  1. Doctor for a PhD is not a professional title; it is an academic honour. It does not matter that the word is shared.

  2. Your boss would be exceptionally rude to refuse the wishes of a guest – it is a terrible error.

Greybeard
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If someone has a foreign title they wish to be addressed by, which doesn't translate well, then the custom I normally see is to use that title directly in English, as a loanword. English is often very permissive about foreign loanwords, after all. With European titles that would likely be pretty straightforward, although I still see it done even in languages with a different name order/word order.

For instance, if I were talking in English about a Japanese person named Tanaka Aiko with the title "sensei" (as a postfix), and if she's not a doctor or a professor, then I would likely use one of "Aiko Tanaka-Sensei" (mildly anglicized), "Sensei Aiko Tanaka" (more anglicized), or maybe "Aiko Tanaka Sensei".

For languages which use titles as prefixes, like English does, I'd likely just use their whole title + name as it appears in their native language (possibly translating some words like "of" where there's an equivalent, if that's considered culturally appropriate).

btw, it's also worth noting that referring to a PhD holder as "Doctor" is something that I see done reasonably often, so that's also an option.

Soron
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    Yes, and that's relatively commonly done too - I've heard/read politicians say 'Modi ji' (India's Prime Minister Modi; 'ji' is (a transliteration of) an honourific suffix) for example. It's kind of like addressing formally the first time and then falling back to 'Sir' (in the first person, 'the Prince' or whatever in the third) in English.

    'Doctor' alone is probably a lesser title which may not be a good idea though, and the two combined may not be correct. (It wouldn't be in English.)

     – OJFord Apr 24 '22 at 14:03
  • How exactly does this differ from the answer already posted by Greybeard? – jsw29 Apr 24 '22 at 16:29
  • @jsw29 If nothing else, it explains that there may be a difference when adopting a foreign title from a language that uses titles as a suffix versus those that match English and use them as a prefix. – ColleenV Apr 26 '22 at 17:23
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What is the appropriate way to address a foreign noble?

There is no single answer to this. The usual British form of address Lord [title] is specific to the English language. You say your guest's title doesn't have any equivalent in English. If he has stated that he doesn't wish to be addressed as Mr., is it not possible to ask him how he does prefer to be addressed?

Incidentally, it's perfectly OK to address a PhD as Dr. [surname] in social situations.

Kate Bunting
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    In my experience it's very unusual to address a Ph.D. as "Doctor" except in formal academic settings (for example, you're being introduced before giving a lecture) or on sales calls (as a scientist or engineer in industry). If somebody does it to me in a social situation I assume they're putting me on. – The Photon Apr 24 '22 at 05:10
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    @ThePhoton - I was thinking back to my childhood, when we were expected to address our friends' parents formally and one friend's father, a PhD, was always 'Doctor Richardson'. I suppose times have changed. – Kate Bunting Apr 24 '22 at 07:27
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    @ThePhoton, your experiencing it as unusual may be due to it being nowadays unusual in many social settings to use any titles at all, even Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms. I don't think that it is unusual to use Dr in the settings in which Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms would otherwise be used (assuming, of course, that it is known in that setting that the person has a doctoral degree). – jsw29 Apr 24 '22 at 16:35
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    @jsw29, the rule I learned years ago is that only medical doctors and ministers (holding a doctorate of divinity) are called "doctor" in social situations. – The Photon Apr 24 '22 at 16:38
  • @ThePhoton: and even most doctors of divinity should be given the side eye… – jmoreno Apr 24 '22 at 19:54
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    @ThePhoton The title is foreign. In Germany, for example, Doktor-Ingenieur Schmidt" is quite normal for an engineering PhD. – Greybeard Apr 24 '22 at 22:49
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    @ThePhoton - this may be a cultural matter in which the United States differs from the rest of the English speaking world. In my country, it would be certainly be considered normal to refer to someone with a PhD as Dr Whatever, and quite rude not to, unless you were unaware of the person's qualification. – Dawood ibn Kareem Apr 25 '22 at 01:23
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    @ThePhoton: I disagree. In America, it's quite common to use first names only, but in the unlikely event that you are using Title Lastname, it's unacceptable to use "Mr. Lastname" or "Ms. Lastname" when you are aware someone has a PhD. You have to say "Dr. Lastname". (If you are not aware of them having a PhD, then of course you'd default to Mr. or Ms, and it would be considered pretentious of them to correct you.) – Nick Matteo Apr 25 '22 at 02:35
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    Wouldn't "Lord" be pretty much reserved for people who are, in fact, actual titled Lords? Calling someone who is not actually a Lord "Lord" would be like referring to non-royalty as "Your Highness". You can do it, but it comes across as sarcastic, and not polite at all. – Darrel Hoffman Apr 25 '22 at 17:11
  • @DarrelHoffman - Of course Lord is reserved for men with an actual title; I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The question was about addressing a foreign noble. – Kate Bunting Apr 25 '22 at 18:39
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As others have said, "Doctor" is entirely normal for someone with a PhD.

In writing or formally introducing him you might consider calling him "Firstname Lastname, PhD" everywhere.

Or you use his noble title exactly as written in his home language. For example if he is "Graf" in German call him "Graf" and don't worry about its English equivalent.

DJClayworth
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    "Patients in a hospital are always called "Mister" even if they have a PhD." Interesting. (What if they are a patient in the hospital where they work?) Is it possible that you are actually misremembering the practice of surgeons often being called Mr. in the UK? Or are those unrelated? – Řídící Apr 23 '22 at 19:02
  • Unrelated. And I'm not guaranteeing it as practiced absolutely everywhere, but I believe it's normal. – DJClayworth Apr 23 '22 at 19:19
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    Since it's not important to my answer I've removed the statement. – DJClayworth Apr 23 '22 at 22:01
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Ask the guest how they would like to be addressed and address them according to their wishes.

I think the general modern rule is to address people how they want to be addressed.

In business and academic environments in the English-speaking world, it is increasing common to allow people to register "preferred names", which may differ from their legal or given names. For example, many universities have a policy of addressing students by a student-supplied preferred name. Titles such as "Mr.", "Mrs.", "Ms." "Miss", and "Dr.", as well as sometimes "Mx.", "Prof.", "Hon." or "other" are usually available when these names are supplied. There is a long tradition of people choosing to names other than their legal names (there have been historical figures who prefer to be addressed by their middle name instead of their first name). Furthermore, at the present time, transgender and non-binary people are struggling to be addressed as they choose. Given that the situation is evolving and complex, it is best practice to ask what title the person would prefer.

Calling a person by his or her preferred name shows respect. Source

In business situations, use formal titles unless the people you meet tell you otherwise. Source

In my view, it's not even your responsibility to determine whether this person has the credentials traditionally required for them to use such a title in your culture. They are a respected guest and you should refer to them as they wish, regardless of any traditional rules that you have been taught, which may vary from culture to culture and context to context.

Edit: I'm arguing that a respected guest should be given the benefit of the doubt that the title they've given you is valid in some cultural context. The rules around titles differ vastly between organizations. Doctor is particularly complex since requirements for doctoral degrees differ substantially between disciplines, institutions, and countries. While doctor is equivalent to physician in the common parlance, by US tradition, the title Dr. includes Doctor of Medicine (MD), Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (DO), Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (DVM), Jurist Doctor (JD), Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), Doctor of Sacred Theology (DTh), etc. It's not your responsibility to obtain their graduate studies transcript and evaluate whether their degree corresponds to your local definition of a doctoral degree or even whether it was valid in the country of origin. If they require you to address them by obviously inflated, pompous titles (although you should be careful about differing cultural contexts), I simply wouldn't invite them.

WaterMolecule
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  • This answer is not about English, it's about manners. If the question is on-topic for EL&U, there should be an answer to it that has some sort of relevance to English in my opinion. – ColleenV Apr 26 '22 at 16:44
  • @ColleenV If I am deciding whether to address you as "vous" or "usted", is this a language issue? Or is it an issue of cultural norms where these languages are spoken? Language and culture are strongly intertwined. It is a growing cultural norm in English-speaking countries (and some others as well) to address people as they choose to be addressed. Although this norm is not universally accepted in these countries, it is the safest course of action for the OP. – WaterMolecule Apr 26 '22 at 17:01
  • Which sort of citation would you use to support your assertion that "modern rule is to address people how they want to be addressed"? A book about English usage or a book on etiquette? Is that rule different if we were speaking French? – ColleenV Apr 26 '22 at 17:16
  • @ColleenV, while etiquette may play a role in choosing which title to use, the need to choose one title arises out of a constraint imposed by English language: in English it is unidiomatic to use more than one title with a person's name, while in some other languages it is perfectly OK to use all applicable titles together. – jsw29 Apr 27 '22 at 19:58
  • @jsw29 Sure, except this answer doesn't talk about that. Nothing about this answer is about English. It's about cultural norms that honestly I think are probably similar in places where other languages are spoken. Would French conference insist that I can not be named using my preferred name? – ColleenV Apr 27 '22 at 20:10