11

11 and 12 mean “one left” and “two left” respectively, referring to number 10. In other words, etymologically, they are NOT remnants of a base 12 number system. They are decimal, just like the -teen numerals.

So why do we have two distinct morphological implementations of the same way of counting?

Edit: I know that people used to count in 12’s a lot. But the unique pattern of “eleven” and “twelve” can’t be explained by that because etymologically, these names mean “[10]+1” and “[10]+2”. No connection to 12.

The fact that “twelve” is used more frequently than “thirteen” and “fourteen” could have resulted in more drastic sound changes, which could have given it its dissimilarity. But (1) that doesn’t explain 11, which has the same frequency as “thirteen” and “fourteen” yet doesn’t follow their pattern, (2) if that’s the result of a sound change only, it’s a pretty wild one. It would mean that -teen and that mixture of e’s and v’s in “eleven” and “twelve” both came from the same word that stood for 10. And this sound change would have affected other words, and it would have been described. But more importantly, “ten”, which is just as frequent as “twelve”, would have changed in the same way. But “ten” is way more similar to -teen than -lve.

I think it makes more sense to believe that these endings came from different words, and that there used to be more than one way of forming numerals, and that the -teen way eventually took over. But why didn’t it take over 11 and 12?

Barmar
  • 20,741
  • 1
  • 38
  • 59
copepod
  • 137
  • 11
    What is your source for this ostensible etymology of 'eleven' and 'twelve'? – Jeff Zeitlin Aug 29 '22 at 13:11
  • 4
    Before the formal decimal system emerged, in UK there were 12 pence in one shilling, 12 inches in a foot, and goods were often sold by 12 for easy packing. Hence dedicated names for these numbers, and they are "remnants of a base 12 number system". We have the word "dozen" too. – Weather Vane Aug 29 '22 at 13:13
  • 6
    Why? Because that's the way it worked out. Number words, particularly the early ones (< 20), are often weird when they exist. In Ute "9" is "almost ten", for instance. Every word in every language has its own unique history in millions of mouths over thousands of years, and nobody was taking notes. – John Lawler Aug 29 '22 at 13:16
  • 1
    @JeffZeitlin etymonline gives that etymology, but it's up to the OP to add it – Chris H Aug 30 '22 at 14:22
  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat. – NVZ Aug 31 '22 at 03:04
  • Just be happy we didn't copy from French. We could be saying: olve, twelve, thrilve, frolve, vilve, silve, ten-seven, ten-eight, ten-nine, score. – Karl Knechtel Aug 31 '22 at 05:39

4 Answers4

11

This pattern of numbering was present even in Old English:

tīen - ten

endleofan - eleven

tƿelf - twelve [note: the "p"-looking element is a wynn, pronounced /w/)

þrēotīne - thirteen

fēoƿertīne - fourteen

It is not clear why that break exists. A common presumption (as summarized in Mental Floss) is that eleven and twelve were used so frequently (e.g. in months of the year, hours in a day, inches in a foot, the twelve Apostles, the wergild price for a thane) that eleven and twelve could maintain nonstandard or colloquial forms. Indeed, ten and twelve appear more frequently than eleven or later numbers in corpus listings like NGram (for reference, eight and nine would be between ten and twelve in the same search):

enter image description here

  • Hm. If they arose due to some dialectal numeral word building, shouldn’t we know of such alternative forms for other numbers? I imagine they’d be preserved in manuscripts. – copepod Aug 29 '22 at 15:53
  • 4
    Many localities have 12 Apostoles, months and hours, and yet not all language have 11 and 12 formed differently. I feel that this explanation alone is not sufficient, since it should apply to other languages, but that does not work. – Andrew Savinykh Aug 30 '22 at 09:04
  • 2
    @AndrewSavinykh I agree. No explanation we currently have is sufficient; as I said, "It is not clear why that break exists." These examples (including wergild and units of measurement, including the quantities of usage within a corpus, including the other answer's further exploration of base-12 counting) are, at best, possibilities for why the difference may emerge in a language; they are not prescriptions for why the difference must emerge in a language. – TaliesinMerlin Aug 30 '22 at 14:28
  • What happened in the 18th century to make it more popular to write these numbers long-form in text? What happened in the 20th century to cause the opposite? – Karl Knechtel Aug 31 '22 at 05:42
8

Base-12, duodecimal systems are very ancient, and its manifest in language via culture. 20 is another one, as you see 4 and 20 in older English to express 80, and similar structures in French and other languages. It seems most likely that this is to do with the division of currency that dates back to Charlemagne, and lasted until 1971 when the UK switched to decimal. Numbers like 12 and 20 were waypoints in the currency system.

To digress for a moment:

The Sumerians may have something to do with it... they came up with the divisions of time and circles, and their sexagesimal system leading to duodecimal (base-12) systems for other application spaces. Even attempts at making symbols for it:

The Dozenal Society of Great Britain (DSGB) proposed symbols ⟨ rotated digit two, reversed or rotated digit three ⟩

12 is one of those features of ancient counting systems that predate even the European implementations in language, and in currency that date back to at least Charlemagne: the Carolingan currency system, a reform of the Roman system, where units like 20 and 12 became commonly-used in daily transactions.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/coin/Charlemagne-and-the-Carolingian-coinages

This might help explain why the pattern is seen across western European languages.

There is evidence of a bias towards duodecimal systems in ancient civilisations across the world independent of each other, in China, Egypt, Maya, and hints of it in African languages. https://www.math.drexel.edu/~jsteuber/Educ525/History/history.html

It may be ultimately due to an approximation of the number of lunar cycles in a year... which is nearer to 13, but not quite.

12 is just a very easy number to deal with mathematically for fractions. The Greeks consolidated the notion of 360 days in a year and degrees in a circle, and 12 fits into that nicely.

see also:

https://hsm.stackexchange.com/questions/2876/was-there-a-very-early-culture-thats-number-system-was-12-based-like-ours-is-1

Why do eleven and twelve get unique words and not end in "-teen"?

  • 4
    In case it isn't obvious: 12 is the smallest number that can be divided into 1, 2, 3, 4 (as well as 6 and 12). 60 is the smallest number that can be divided into 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (as well as 10, 12, 15, 20, 30). 360 is the smallest number that can be divided into 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and can also be divided into the "other" easily dividable numbers 12 and 60. That's the reason for why these systems based on 12, 60, or 360 are widespread. – Jörg W Mittag Aug 30 '22 at 10:10
  • @JörgWMittag 360 points to another system in which different divisors are used (analogous, I say, to bases): dividing the compass by powers of 2 or into 360°. Bisection is fairly easy after all – Chris H Aug 30 '22 at 14:20
  • 8
    I thought "4 and 20 blackbirds" meant 24, not 80. You may be thinking of "4 score". – Barmar Aug 30 '22 at 15:47
  • 1
    @JörgWMittag Just for completeness, you're describing Highly Composite Numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_composite_number – Gerardo Furtado Aug 31 '22 at 03:56
  • @Barmar fr. quatre vingt is four times twenty, they're still counting up to hundred from there nowadays. ninety is quatre vingt dix, four times twenty plus ten, not four-and-twenty which would be the german word order for twenty-four. – dlatikay Aug 31 '22 at 08:15
  • @dlatikay There's no "and" in quatre vingt. I think the English equivalent would be four twenties. But we don't say that (except when referring to 20-dollary bills), we use score when that's what's intended. – Barmar Aug 31 '22 at 15:05
  • @JörgWMittag exactly! – Reginald Lloyd Aug 31 '22 at 18:33
  • @barmar both mean the same thing... 4 times 20 – Reginald Lloyd Aug 31 '22 at 18:33
  • 1
    @dlatikay it's older idiosyncratic English, the "and" is a filler word for "multiplied by"; many such words are omitted in American English, but not in English English. – Reginald Lloyd Aug 31 '22 at 18:34
  • 1
    Older than the nursery rhyme where it means 24? – Barmar Aug 31 '22 at 19:09
  • it doesn't mean 24, it never did, you and others are maybe thinking of it too literally-logically, rather than culturally-etymologically where it's roots are in a specific meaning when people talked like Yoda etc... if you read related languages like Dutch and Danish, you can see how they seem a bit like old English in syntax. – Reginald Lloyd Sep 01 '22 at 18:01
2

I apologise for the "copy and paste" job and the omission of the full route the words took.

The system that produced eleven and twelve does not appear to be duodecimal, which would have made our "24" significant, but purely decimal:

OED

Eleven:

Etymology: Cognate with Old Frisian andlova , allewa , elleva , […] Old Danish ællefue (Danish elleve ), Gothic ainlif < the Germanic base of one n. + an element of uncertain origin also found in twelve adj. and n. (see below).

Origin of the second element.

The original sense of the Germanic formation was apparently ‘one left (after counting to ten)’. The second element is either (a) < an ablaut variant of the same Germanic base as belive v.1 (see also leave v.1), or (b) < the same Germanic base as the Germanic forms cited at loan n.1 In the latter case, the development of the original labiovelar to labial fricative (compare -f- , -v- in the cognate forms cited above) would have taken place in the Germanic form of twelve adj. and n., and would subsequently have been extended by analogy to the Germanic form of eleven adj. and n.

A formation that is either similar or identical (depending on the origin of the second element in the Germanic word) is shown by Lithuanian vienuolika eleven < vienas one n. + a second element (used also in Lithuanian cardinal numerals from twelve to nineteen) < the same base as (with different ablaut grade) Lithuanian liekas spare, excessive, eleventh (itself < the same Indo-European base as the Germanic forms cited at loan n.1).

The entry for twelve has the additional

Analogous formations to eleven and twelve are the Lithuania vênů′lika 11, dvýlika 12, in which the second element, Lithuania -lika, has also the meaning of ‘left over’. All other Indo-European languages have or had forms composed of ‘two’ + ‘ten’, like the numbers 13 to 19; compare Latin duōdecim, Greek δώδεκα, Sanskrit dwādaçan.

From this one ten, and two ten are the first part of a sequence that then goes three ten (thirteen), etc.

Greybeard
  • 41,737
0

Could the words for eleven and twelve be remnants of a base 20 numeric system? The words are similar in the norse languages: elva/elleve and tolv

The base 20 counting system is still visible in the Danish language. This is how the "uneven tens" are expressed:

50 = halvtreds = one half subtracted from three (times 20) = (3 - 0.5) * 20

51 = en og halvtreds = one plus one half subtracted from three (times 20) = 1 + ((3 - 0.5) * 20 )

70 = halvfjerds = one half subtracted from four (times 20) = (4 - 0.5) * 20

72 = to og halvfjerds = one half subtracted from four (times 20) = 2 + ((4 - 0.5) * 20 )

90 = halvfems = one half subtracted from five (times 20) = (4 - 0.5) * 20

92 = halvfems = one half subtracted from five (times 20) = (4 - 0.5) * 20

And I'm only guessing, but the "uneven tens" of 10 - 19 could be expressed similarly:

11 = one plus one half subtracted from one (times 20) = 1 + ((1 - 0.5) * 20 )

12 = two plus one half subtracted from one (times 20) = 2 + ((1 - 0.5) * 20 )

And the frequent use of 11 & 12 could explain why these numbers kept the non-standard form, while 13 - 19 submitted to the base 10 setup. It could also account for the sound changes mentioned. But the "elev" and "-lwe" parts remain and could be traced back to the word half/halv.

I am not in any way a scholar of this subject, so please feel free to criticize or elaborate on these ideas.

  • 1
    Your answer could be improved with additional supporting information. Please [edit] to add further details, such as citations or documentation, so that others can confirm that your answer is correct. You can find more information on how to write good answers in the help center. – Community Aug 30 '22 at 23:08