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When I say the word Gentiles I make three specific vowel sounds. I posted a poem in a writing group recently and everyone gave the feedback that a particular line was missing a syllable, when in my estimation it was not (it used the word Gentiles, and I asked them how many syllables it has, they say two).

I asked my wife how to say the word (I asked her "how do you say the word that means the opposite of Jews), and she said it the same way I do. We both agreed it was three syllables, but it kept bugging me, so I looked it up online and everything seems to say it's two syllables (they didn't give an explanation).

Perhaps most confusing of all, Google has the ability to let you hear how to pronounce words. It shows two syllables written down, but the way it pronounces the word is with what sounds like three syllables to my ear.

tchrist
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jaredad7
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  • Odd. I can very clearly hear a three-syllable pronunciation in my mind… and Google’s isn’t it. That’s just a diphthong, to my ear. – Tim Pederick Nov 05 '22 at 19:00
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    @TimPederick You can listen to a whole lot of different versions of it here. Hit the skip-forward button to go on the next example each time after you've heard the current one. – tchrist Nov 05 '22 at 19:06
  • I only hear two syllables in the Google pronunciation. – Hot Licks Nov 05 '22 at 19:09
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    @HotLicks Hearing sounds can be a trial / Locked away in durance vile. / Do not touch another dial / Till you've walked a noisy mile / Down some busy bustling aisle. / Once you've faced your own denial / Light the room up with a smile! – tchrist Nov 05 '22 at 19:55
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    @tchrist Thanks for the link. I expect diphthong ↔ hiatus is a continuum rather than a firm line, but I would call it three syllables in #1, two in #2, #4, #5, not sure about #3, didn’t listen to the other 3000+! Hmm… I’ve never yet used spectrograms and the like to analyse speech, but I’m wondering if that would present a noticeable difference? (On an unrelated, nitpicky note, I am apparently determined to judge that site poorly as an English resource, purely because I find this message awkwardly phrased: “Enabled JavaScript is required to listen…”!) – Tim Pederick Nov 06 '22 at 06:38

1 Answers1

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If you are hearing gentiles with three syllables, that matches how you hear denials with three syllables. The spelling doesn’t matter, of course. What’s happening is that in many accents, the /l/ following that diphthong has an epenthetic schwa inserted right before it: [ˈd͡ʒɛntɑjəlz]. So you hear it as having three syllables:

  1. [d͡ʒɛn]
  2. [tɑ]
  3. [jəlz]

In other accents the diphthong can even be smoothed into a monophthong, [ˈd͡ʒɛntɐɫz], which means you now have one syllable less there without the [jə] part. You can also find accents where the /l/ is weakened into a semivowel /w/ under L-vocalization, producing [ˈd͡ʒɛntɐwz].

Accents where you sometimes hear gentiles pronounced with two syllables include Southern American English in the Deep South of the United States and in Standard Southern British in southeast England.

If you’ve ever mistaken someone saying tile for someone saying tall, then you can imagine how the two-syllable version would work in those accents. I’m guessing that your own accent probably rhymes loyal and boil — and uses two syllables for both of those. But not all accents do so, sometimes producing an apparent boil–bowl merger.

Dictionaries don’t give accurate phonetics that apply to all speakers and utterances. In many cases, they’re hopelessly out of date and misleading because they do not represent actual phonetics used by native speakers anywhere anymore.

You may also be confusing some dictionary’s hyphenation guidance as actual phonetic syllabification. Those are not the same. In writing, you are allowed to split the word gentile into gen- and -tile to break it at the end of a line. That doesn’t have anything to do with its actual syllables.

Greybeard
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tchrist
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    Yes, it's exactly the same as denials. Do you know of an accent that says gentiles differently? I've never heard anyone say it with two syllables. The only thing I can think of is maybe there is some accent I'm unfamiliar with where people say gen-tuls or gen-tals, and the latter seems to match what you were saying about a two-syllable accent. – jaredad7 Nov 05 '22 at 18:06
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    @jaredad7 Accents where you sometimes hear it pronounced with two syllables include Southern American English in the Deep South of the United States and in Standard Southern British in southeast England. If you've ever mistaken someone saying tile for someone saying tall, then you can imagine how the two-syllable version would work in those accents. Your accent probably rhymes loyal and boil — and uses two syllables for both of those, but not all accents do so, sometimes producing an apparent boil–bowl merger. – tchrist Nov 05 '22 at 18:12
  • Thanks. Ironically, I went to college in the deep south, though I grew up in New Orleans, and I can't recall anyone ever saying gen-talls. However, I can hear them saying "talls" instead of tiles in my head right now. – jaredad7 Nov 05 '22 at 18:16
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    I hear 3 syllables in "denials", but not in "gentiles". Note that "denials" has adjacent "i" and "a" sounds, and I think most people pronounce both of them, hence 3 syllables. "gentiles" does not have adjacent vowel sounds. – Hot Licks Nov 05 '22 at 19:15
  • @HotLicks Don't be tricked by spelling: trials, dials, vials, viols, denials, reviles, files, miles, smiles, whiles, isles, aisles all rhyme in many accents. – tchrist Nov 05 '22 at 19:24
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    Yes, I can't figure out how to get three syllables, or even a diphthong out of gentiles. I say jen tiles like Jen tiles her floor. Genteel has a little bit extra going on, but I wouldn't call it a diphthong, just a bit longer vowel sound. Denial is a two syllable word with a diphthong in some dialects, but not mine. – Phil Sweet Nov 05 '22 at 20:56
  • @PhilSweet Saying teal as ['tʰɪjəɫ], tile as ['tʰɐ̝jəɫ], or tail as ['tʰɛjəɫ] is called *pre-L breaking*, and it is not unique to AmE: this video shows it happening in British versions as well. That said, Southern AmE has more vowel breaking than many accents do. Yet they also like to smooth classic diphthongs into monophthongs like tile as tall, just as you often find in SSBE. – tchrist Nov 05 '22 at 21:11
  • @tchrist went through the links and a bunch of others as well. I had never considered dark l as forming a diphthong. Things like the iou in curious were diphthongs. I grew up in western Pa, and we had a few awkward diphtongs that we borrowed from Algonquian and were still very common in place names. I suspect I don't voice many of the offglides. Cow and boy have diphthongs, but eye and raw don't. – Phil Sweet Nov 06 '22 at 12:54
  • I still have the glide as far as mouth position, but it works more like a voiceless stop. I-I-I or eye eye eye is not aye yai yai – Phil Sweet Nov 06 '22 at 12:54
  • @PhilSweet When you say curious for you has a diphthong (not a hiatus?) following the R, do you mean that you pronounce it with just 2 syllables not 3, like the word cure followed by the word yes, as if "Nah seddle down folx, weera ginna cure yiz"? Usually curious is shown with 3 syllables, like phonemic /ˈkjʊ.ri.əs/ or phonetic [ˈkʰjʉw.ɻʷɪj.əs], not just 2 like /ˈkjʊr.jəs/ [ˈkʰjʉɻ.jəs] . The stressed vowel varies between speakers and utterances, whether closer to NURSE ore GOOSE, but I haven’t thought much about the part following R. – tchrist Nov 06 '22 at 16:03
  • @tchrist I only ran across hiatus in this sense yesterday reading your links. I say the end like the start of rheostat. The off glide and /s/ are unvoiced. (This isn't terribly helpful, as Collins lists rheostat as two syllables, Websters lists it as three, Random House learners - 2, Random House unabridged - 3!) Leave it to me to find the edge case every time, but I like the Collins IPA version. Not like this! youtube.com/watch?v=truHqdF50Hg – Phil Sweet Nov 06 '22 at 20:31
  • Collins shows rheostat with three syllables, just like everybody else does. To have only two syllables, you’d need some sort of diphthong combining two vowels into one single syllable, like [ˈɹj͡u.stæt] or [ˈɹi͡w.stæt], respectively with a rising [ju] and a falling [iw] diphthong. – tchrist Nov 06 '22 at 20:34