“I am fourteen past”

Question

"My name is Helena, and I am fourteen past."

I found the line in My New Home by Mrs. Molesworth. I don't know what it means, and why it ends with past.

I know time expressions like “Half past one” and “it's past midnight” but “I am fourteen past” is new to me.

This is very much incorrect usage of English, in a modern sense. Using it nowadays would result in total confusion (just like in your question), don’t — Danny Beckett, Nov 16 '23 at 21:45
Mmmm, I wouldn't understand the expression without some help from the context, and I doubt many people would. I think ‘_fourteen plus_’ would be the nearest modern equivalent, though still a little unclear; something like ‘_over fourteen_’ would be clearer, and ‘_fourteen and a bit_’ more natural. — gidds, Nov 16 '23 at 23:58
It is the literal translation of our French phrase to say that "I am past fourteen": "J'ai 14 ans passé". It is very common and can be used in an everyday conversation. — Cryborg, Nov 16 '23 at 11:39

score 34 · Answer 1 · answered Nov 15 '23 at 10:25

34

Evidently it was a recognised usage in the 19th century. I searched Google Ngrams for thirteen/fourteen/fifteen/sixteen past and found a small number of similar expressions.

From Report on the State of Education in the Country Districts of Scotland (1866)

They all answered with great promptitude as to their ages - 'thirteen past', 'fourteen past', 'fifteen past'.

Presumably the sense is 'I'm past my fourteenth birthday'.

answered Nov 15 '23 at 10:25

Kate Bunting

25,480

4

I might read it as "I'm fourteen [years] past [my date of birth]" – TylerW Nov 15 '23 at 19:46
1

This sounds like it might be related to a construction like Wednesday week. – Stephan Samuel Nov 15 '23 at 19:57
The phrase somewhat reminds me of "You'll be five, and a little bit over" line from Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance when someone learns their true age is a "little bit over" five birthdays, meaning more than five but not enough to be six, or even five-and-a-half. – Criggie Nov 15 '23 at 22:21
5

This answer is excellent, but it’s important to also note this usage is not current in English today — I think most native speakers would find it unnatural, and might not understand it out of context. (I guess it may still be current in some dialects, but not in any I’m familiar with — certainly not in “standard” US or UK usage.) – PLL Nov 16 '23 at 15:43
3

@PLL - I would have thought my first sentence made it clear that it is not a recognised usage today! – Kate Bunting Nov 16 '23 at 16:02
3

@KateBunting: Implicitly it does, I quite agree, but I felt it worth saying explicitly too, since the people most in need of it are precisely the second-language learners who are more liable to miss a non-obvious implicature. – PLL Nov 16 '23 at 17:06
I wholly agree with Kate. Might we also note that while, hopefully, this is the worst example of her writing, when Mrs Molesworth clearly states 'My third name is… "Charlotte." So my whole name is 'Helena Charlotte…' she inspires no-one with any confidence in her ability to count beyond one, let alone up to '14 past.' – Robbie Goodwin Nov 16 '23 at 23:25
1

@RobbieGoodwin I take it to mean that "Charlotte" is third name in the order of her telling us about her names. – LarsH Nov 17 '23 at 02:35
1

In agreement with PLL: As a native speaker (American), I would not only find it unnatural, I would have a hard time figuring out what it meant. Fourteen past what? – LarsH Nov 17 '23 at 02:36
@LarsH Are you saying the provided link leads to the wrong text? When I looked, it led to 'My third name is… just 'Charlotte.' So my whole name is 'Helena Charlotte Naomi Wingfield.' Either way it's not to be understood literally as 'fourteen past' but figuratively, as 'past fourteen.' – Robbie Goodwin Nov 18 '23 at 00:02
@RobbieGoodwin No, I didn't mean that the link leads to the wrong text. The paragraph says "My name is Helena [#1], and I am fourteen past. I have two other Christian names; one of them is rather queer. It is 'Naomi.' [#2] ... My third name is not uncommon. It is just 'Charlotte.' [#3]" What I meant was that Charlotte was the third name that she told us about -- as opposed to being the third name in the order of saying her full name. Does that make sense? I agree with you that her usage of "third name" is confusing, but I don't think it's a counting error. – LarsH Nov 18 '23 at 03:38
@LarsH That interpretation isn't impossible and I suggest it would tie itself into so many knots we could hardly see up its navel, let alone glean meaning there.
In 60 years of listening, with long interest in genealogy, ordinary English, 'my third name' always refers to the third in the list, eg 'Helena Charlotte Naomi Wingfield', never 'the third name she told us about'. Can you cite any examples?

In the special language of riddles, 'the third name she told us about…' could be perfect, but that's exceptional.

In all cases, I see her arithmetic as uncertain, at best.
– Robbie Goodwin Nov 18 '23 at 20:10

score 20 · Answer 2 · answered Nov 16 '23 at 03:55

I am fourteen past means I am past fourteen.

From the OED:

past preposition & adverb
_PREPOSITION
1.c. Beyond, older than (a specified age). Also (occasionally) placed after its object.
_{Source: Oxford English
Dictionary (login required)}

These are the attestations there that show the “occasional” usage:

1676 A light gray Gelding..five years old past.

1720 Lost.., a black Mare,..aged three Years past.

1835 This morning my white mare died, being 8 years old past, for which I gave $100 at five years past.

Here is another among them showing past in the more usual position:

1767 His being able, at past eighty, to perform this expedition on foot.

Now, the curious thing is that those occasionals all have to do with horses, and I imagine Helena is not a horse.

This should be the accepted answer, since it gives us the meaning of the phrase on good authority. — LarsH, Nov 17 '23 at 02:30
"A light gray Gelding...five years old at it's past birthday" makes sense. It's just shorthand. — FreeMan, Nov 17 '23 at 19:00

“I am fourteen past”

2 Answers2