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In most embedded questions, the "Wh" portion of the question stays grouped together with the rest of the converted question

Example:

"What time is it?" makes "Do you know what time it is?"


However, the rules seem different when "do you think" is used

Example:

"What time is it" makes "What time do you think it is?"

Is this splitting of the embedded question with "do you think" a unique exception?

jimm101
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Peter
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3 Answers3

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There's something you missed. The two embedded questions are not parallel; one is a single clause, and the other (the one with think) is complex -- i.e, there are two clauses here instead of one.

Let's just look at the embedded question parts and see where they come from:

  1. .. what time it is?

    • comes from What time is it? -- by Embedded Question Formation (with Subject Inversion)
    • which comes from It is [indef] time -- by Wh-Question Formation (with what for [indef])
    • which comes from The time is [indef] -- by Extraposition (leaving a Dummy It subject).
  2. .. what time you think it is?

    • comes from What time do you think it is?
    • which comes from You think (that) it is [indef] time.
    • which comes from You think (that) the time is [indef].

Notice that in (2), the order is always it is, never is it. That's because the main clause that the wh-question is formed from is You think ..., rather than It is ... That's why the ordinary (not embedded) wh-question would need Do-Support, which of course is not the case in embedded questions.

So nothing has been "split". Syntax doesn't work that way. The rule has been applied to the main clause (with verb think) of a complex sentence, while the wh-word has been moved from the object complement clause (with verb is) of think.

John Lawler
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  • Thank you for your answer. And the author might want to know if people can say "Do you think what time it is?" besides "What time do you think it is?". I think the two questions have different contexts. The former, "Do you think + ", might be correct in the grammar, but not the same meaning of the second question. How do you think of this? Thank you. – library Apr 28 '20 at 10:03
  • Besides, can we say "what time do you know it is?" If not, what is the reason? Thank you. – library Apr 30 '20 at 09:50
  • Is the following a similar case, and basically a grammatical structure? Where, I wonder, he lives. – Mori Mar 14 '24 at 07:58
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    @Mori sadly John Lawler cannot respond to your question as he passed away in November last year. I would say "I wonder where he lives" If "I wonder" is parenthetical, that changes the structure and becomes a question needing an auxiliary and a question mark "Where (I wonder) does he live? – Mari-Lou A Mar 14 '24 at 11:01
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    @Mori Starting a sentence with the interrogative pronoun "where" will usually make it into a direct question. Compare "Do you know where the station is?", "Where, do you think, the station is? and "Where is the station?” but "I wonder (I am asking myself) where the station is.” (no question mark) – Mari-Lou A Mar 14 '24 at 11:30
  • @Mari-LouA: "sadly John Lawler cannot respond to your question as he passed away in November last year." So sad to hear that! – Mori Mar 16 '24 at 07:53
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Short answer. Tl;dr:

Yes/no questions just require an auxiliary verb to appear at the front of the sentence. This leaves the rest of the sentence in tact. This is what happened in the Original Poster's Do example.

Open questions require the interrogative word or phrase to be moved to the front of the sentence (when it is not the subject). This disrupts the rest of the sentence and can break up constituents. This is what has happened in the Original Poster's example with What time.


The full story:

  1. Do you know what time it is?

  2. What time do you think it is?

Example (1) is a yes/no question (also called a polar question or a closed question). To make a polar question we take the auxiliary verb and move it in front of the subject:

  • You can swim --> Can you swim?
  • She has finished --> Has she finished?

Sometimes a sentence doesn't have an auxiliary verb as standard in the declarative version. In these cases we use the dummy auxiliary, the verb DO:

  • You take sugar --> You do take sugar --> Do you take sugar?.

This is what has happened in example (1):

  • You know what time it is --> You do know what time it is --> Do you know what time it is?

Notice that although the speaker of such a sentence actually wants the listener to tell them what time it is, the technical answer to their question is either 'Yes' or 'No'. And if the listener wanted to be facetious they could easily give one of those answers as a very annoying joke.

Example (2) is rather different. It's an open question. The technical answer to (2) is not 'Yes' or 'No', but rather '2.15' or '3am' or whatever the time happens to be. It called an 'open' question because there is in principle no limit to the number of different answers one might give.

To make an open interrogative, we first need to replace the item we want to know the identity/value of with an interrogative word, like who or why and so forth:

  • You met xyz --> You met who?
  • Xyz ate the pies --> Who ate the pies?

Then if we want to make a conventional open question, we move the interrogative word or phrase to the front of the question:

  • *Who you met who?
  • Who ate the pies?

But, as you can see from the examples above, that is not always sufficient. The second example, where the interrogative word is the subject is fine. However the first example—where we had to move the interrogative word from a different position to get it to the front of the sentence—is ungrammatical. In these cases, we also need to move the auxiliary verb to in front of the subject. And just like with yes/no questions, if we don't already have an auxiliary, we insert the dummy auxiliary, DO:

  • You met xyz --> You met who? --> Who you met who? --> Who you did meet? --> Who did you meet: Who did you meet?

This is what has happened in the Original Poster's second example:

  • You think it is what time? --> What time you think it is? --> What time you do think it is? --> What time do you think it is?: What time do you think it is?

Executive summary [As Prof Lawler used to say]:

In yes/no questions we only move the auxiliary verb to the front of the sentence. The rest of the clause remains undisturbed. In other words the rest of the sentence is the same as it would be in a declarative clause.

In open questions we often have to move the interrogative phrase from another part of the clause. This can often break up larger constituents within the sentence, and also means that open questions can look considerably different from their declarative counterparts.


Authoritative source

All of the information above can be found in Rodney Huddleston, Geoffrey K. Pullum and Brett Reynolds (2022) A student's introduction to English grammar. Cambridge University Press.

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    In your second paragraph you might have meant to write "open questions" not "closed questions". – MetaEd Mar 15 '24 at 19:19
  • @MetaEd Aaarghh. – Araucaria - Him Mar 15 '24 at 19:20
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    The overall typographical emphasis of this answer is about 0.2 (20%) lawler. – MetaEd Mar 15 '24 at 21:58
  • "Yes/no questions just require an auxiliary verb to appear at the front of the sentence." To be a bit more accurate, be or an auxiliary verb. For example: Is he tall? – Mori Mar 17 '24 at 18:57
  • Is the following the same case? Split indirect question – Mori Mar 17 '24 at 19:00
  • @Mori Yes, indeed, that's how we used to think of it. However, in modern 20th and 21st century grammar BE is always an auxiliary verb, whether there's another verb or not. Linguists now think of 'auxiliaries' as a syntactic classs of verbs which have certain specific characteristics. And BE is always one of those verbs. Maybe have a look at this post here: Is 'Helper Verb' Old School?. – Araucaria - Him Mar 17 '24 at 20:41
  • @Mori Re: "Is the following the same case? Split indirect question", yes, it's the same more or less. Keelan's answer there is good. The main thing to understand is this, I think: The examples look as if the main issue is about subordinate interrogative clauses ('indirect questions' or 'embedded questions'), but that's a red herring. The difference between the two sentences is just about main clause questions, not embedded ones. *Where does he live* and *Where does he think he lives* are the same type of main clause question and have the same form: they use do + infinitive etc – Araucaria - Him Mar 17 '24 at 21:02
  • "in modern 20th and 21st century grammar BE is always an auxiliary verb" That’s not how all grammarians think. According to the Oxford Dictionary of English Grammar, “an auxiliary cannot function as the only verb in a complete sentence.” Here's some more authoritative contemporary sources where be is classified as both a main verb and an auxiliary verb: Practical English Usage, Oxford Learner’s grammar, Collins COBUILD English Grammar, Understanding And Using English Grammar, English Grammar Today, Garner's Modern English Usage. It’s also the case in any major English dictionary. – Mori Mar 20 '24 at 09:29
  • @Mori Well, using a dictionary for grammar information is absolutely no good. Ever. See here for why this is the case. But in general I used "modern" in there for a reason! Usage guides and EFL materials, like dictionaries are still using 19th century grammar. Linguists and serious language enthusiasts don't use these types of reference for their research or descriptions. :) – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 09:56
  • @Mori Incidentally, I find it cruel and unusual punishment for EFL teachers (I am an EFL teacher, btw) to teach their students that BE is a "main verb" and not an auxiliary when it doesn't have a following verb!!! :-/ [ I should probably also add that Swann's PEU and the Oxford dictionary of English grammar are otherwise excellent resources for English students, PEU's properly based on real usage and very clear with excellent diagrams for conceptualising things. Excellent resource]. – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 10:18
  • "using a dictionary for grammar information is absolutely no good…Linguists and serious language enthusiasts don't use these types of reference for their research or descriptions." You might be right about dictionaries, but as you noticed, I also mentioned some reputable grammar sources. Here's another one: Advanced Grammar in Use. Aren't they written by & for linguists and serious language enthusiasts? :) – Mori Mar 20 '24 at 10:57
  • @Mori No, not really. They're written for EFL students, rather than linguists (which here means people who study how language works, not people who learn to speak other languages!). Again, advanced grammar in use is a good book for students (apart from the BE as auxiliary type of thing!). :-) – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 11:23
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    "I find it cruel and unusual punishment for EFL teachers" "They're written for EFL students" If that's the case, I wonder why they make things unnecessarily complicated and difficult for EFL teachers and, consequently, for students. Isn't English already tough to master? Wouldn't it be simpler to utilize the latest linguistic studies and classify be solely as an auxiliary verb? – Mori Mar 20 '24 at 11:58
  • @Mori Yes!!! It would! I really don't understand why it's taking so long to filter through. It makes everything so complicated. I mean look at these simple rules and generalisations that we can make about English ... – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 12:01
  • @Mori (1) If you need to use an auxiliary verb and there isn’t one already, use auxiliary do. (2) Only auxiliary verbs can contract with not. (3) To make a tensed clause negative, put the word not after the auxiliary verb. (4) To make a yes/no question put the auxiliary verb at the front of the clause. (5) To make a tag question, use the auxiliary verb plus the subject. (6) Put adverbs like always after the first auxiliary (or after where the first auxiliary would be if there was one). (7) To give a sentence emphatic polarity, stress the auxiliary verb. ... – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 12:07
  • (8) In a non-subject wh-question, put the auxiliary before the subject (9) In a sentence beginning with a negative adverb, put the auxiliary before the subject [when the whole sentence becomes negative] (10) In a sentence with an initial (non-subject phrase) modified by only, put the auxiliary before the subject. You get the idea. Now, think about how complicated that all gets if BE is not an auxiliary in sentences like She is very clever! The torture we put beginner students through regarding where to put adverbs like always, for example, is really unfair! ... – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 12:15
  • @Mori "Put always after the first auxiliary - but before the main verb if there isn't an auxiliary - but after the main verb if the main verb is BE" <-- That's not very easy to remember! :-) – Araucaria - Him Mar 20 '24 at 12:16
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Before going into the difference between do you know and do you think, we need to first think about the difference between open and closed questions. An open question has any number of possible answers, whereas a closed question has a closed set of answers (Yes and No).

Here are your examples:

(1) What time is it? [open question]
(2) Do you know what time it is? [closed question]
(3) What time do you think it is? [open question]

As shown, (1) and (3) are open questions, whereas (2) is a closed question. In (1) and (3), the speaker is asking the listener about the time, so the question starts with an interrogative phrase such as what time. In (2), on the other hand, what the speaker is asking the listener about is not the time but whether the listener knows something or not, so the question starts not with an interrogative phrase but with an auxiliary such as do.

Now, let's look at this pair:

(2') ?What time do you know it is? [open question]
(3') ?Do you think what time it is? [closed question]

These are strange things to say, not because of grammar but because of their meanings. In (2'), the speaker is asking the listener about the time that the speaker assumes the listener already knows, so adding do you know would be stating the obvious to the point where it sounds strange.

In (3'), the speaker is asking the listener about whether or not the listener thinks what time it is, which would sound strange in most contexts.

JK2
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