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I thought of this question right after I posted a tweet about a service upgrading me to a free student account since I am in college. I said "That really helps a broke college student out." I actually paused for a second while I was writing that to decide if I should say

That really helps out a broke college student.

or

That really helps a broke college student out.

Are there any prescriptive rules about splitting phrasal verbs like this? I know this breaks the "don't put a preposition at the end of a sentence" rule, but that "rule" has an exception for phrasal verbs.

To clarify:

  1. Is there any rule that says phrasal verbs can't be split, even if it is just an imposed, prescriptive rule?
  2. Does splitting a phrasal verb to put a preposition at the end of a sentence fall under the phrasal verb exception to the prepositions at the end of a sentence rule?
JSBձոգչ
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Nick Anderegg
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  • There is no "don't put a preposition at the end of a sentence" rule, except in the minds of pettifogging fussbudgets. Where'd you get that idea from? – Robusto Aug 07 '12 at 19:19
  • Notice how after that statement, when I referred back to the rule, I put "rule" in quotes. This isn't so much a functional question as it is a "do people care about petty crap like this" question. – Nick Anderegg Aug 07 '12 at 19:22
  • @Robusto Presumably, the outspoken "pettifogging fussbudgets". Incidentally, that's become my new favorite insult. Now I just need to look up what it means... ;) – rsegal Aug 07 '12 at 19:23
  • The term 'phrasal verb' itself is unhelpful, as different grammarians use it in different and conflicting ways. // Different verbs behave differently. The 'Oxford Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs' (I believe they use the term in its most general sense; I'd use 'multi-word verbs') usefully adds 'inseparable', 'optionally separable' and 'obligatorially separable' with each transitive usage it lists. – Edwin Ashworth Nov 09 '16 at 11:52
  • @EdwinAshworth, doesn't the very existence of the aforementioned 'Oxford Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs' suggest that the term is fairly widely understood? Or is your point that the term is unhelpful in this specific instance? – tkp Jan 16 '17 at 22:01
  • @tkp They spend many pages describing their usage of the term. So, no. The relevant Wikipedia article discusses the conflicting usages of the term. – Edwin Ashworth Jan 16 '17 at 23:30

4 Answers4

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The informal rule is a stylistic one. Keep the complement as close as possible.

That really helps me out.

Clearly this is not a lot of separation, and to phrase it "helps out me" would sound awkward and awful.

That really helps out the children who are starving every day in Africa.

To put "out" at the end would simply require the reader or listener to wait too long to parse your verb as a phrasal verb.

To sum it all up: it's a judgment call.

To sum up everything I have stated in this response: it's still a judgment call.

Robusto
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  • So basically, either of my examples would work since either sounds natural, and no "pettifogging fussbudget" has yet come up with a rule to say that either of my sentences is incorrect? – Nick Anderegg Aug 07 '12 at 19:24
  • Pretty much. I would lean toward "help out a broke college student," but you have to rely on your own ear to tell you when the interpolated material is too much for the brain to digest before forgetting the first part of the phrasal verb. – Robusto Aug 07 '12 at 19:27
  • @Nick: You'd probably horrify the pettifogging fussbudgets with your second sentence. I agree with Robusto: the more you cram between the two parts of the split phrasal verb, the bigger your risk of a poorly constructed sentence. In your case, when I first read "That really helps a broke college student out," I wondered if the phrasal verb was "broke out" (as in, "he broke out of his shell"), instead of "helps out," so I had to read it twice. Your first sentence is the better of the two; sometimes the fussbudgets have a point. – J.R. Aug 07 '12 at 19:36
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    You've missed one thing that is a rule, namely that a pronoun must come between the verb and the particle, while nouns can do either. That really helps me out is fine; *That really helps out me is not. – JSBձոգչ Aug 07 '12 at 19:41
  • @J.R. I disagree with there being too much between the two parts; there is a single, concise noun-phrase there. a is the article, broke and college are both adjectives, and student is the noun. In Robusto's example, on the other hand, "the children who are starving every day in Africa" is a noun phrase, verb phrase, and propositional phrase all rolled into one fragment. I definitely see issues with that, but not a single noun phrase. – Nick Anderegg Aug 07 '12 at 19:42
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    @Nick: Robusto said it best, and I concur with him: it's a judgment call. (I don't know what you're "disagreeing with" - that I didn't find your first sentence more readable than your second?) I agree, your second sentence is plenty parsible, and not ungrammatical; I was only trying to say it read more awkwardly than your first. – J.R. Aug 07 '12 at 20:11
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    What JSBձոգչ said. Another "rule" is that you can't make one component of a phrasal verb do "double duty" by using it in constructions involving "stripping" or other "deletions". You can (just about) say "That helps me understand, and [helps] you control, the process". You can't say "That helps me out, and [helps] you control, the process". – FumbleFingers Aug 07 '12 at 21:25
  • @JSBձոգչ: I figured it was clear enough that a pronoun creates very little distance between the two parts of a phrasal verb. But I take your point, and agree. Still, I can think of cases where, for emphasis, I might say: "Sure, that helps out him [points to John], but what about me?" – Robusto Aug 07 '12 at 21:50
  • This fails to point out that though some multi-word verbs are optionally separable, others are obligatorily separable (I can't tell the Johnson twins apart), and some are inseparable (I came across a Bugatti yesterday). – Edwin Ashworth Jan 16 '17 at 23:41
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This from the 'Longman Student Grammar of Spoken and Written English’:

Transitive phrasal verbs allow particle movement . . . When the object of a transitive phrasal verb is a pronoun, the adverbial particle is almost always after the object.

It follows that both your examples are possible. However, if you replace a broke college student with the pronoun him, only That really helps him out is possible.

(Different considerations apply with prepositional verbs.)

Barrie England
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  • Oooh, this is a really good example. To me, "helps out a broke college student" sounds like the lesser form, and "helps out him" helps drives the point home. – Nick Anderegg Aug 07 '12 at 19:43
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Splitting an infinitive would be an example of a zombie-rule even more famous than the zombie-rule against ending with a preposition, and would be an example or splitting a phrasal verb, since the two words act as a single verb.

And since it famously is perfectly good English to do so, we can extend that to other phrasal verbs.

It would be poor style to get lost:

It really helps a broke college student, who has to make do on a government grant, and has just learnt that new means-testing rules means he's not even going to be receiving the full amount this year, on top of his car breaking down and needing some rather expensive repairs (or alternatively he could use public transport, but that would mean he couldn't get from college to his part-time job in time, making matters worse), out.

Would probably be considered poor style.

Jon Hanna
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The split verb question aside, what the sentence really needs is tightening. You don't need the word "out." It should just read - This really helps a broke college student. And in channeling our inner William Zinser, we should also get rid of "really."

This helps a broke college student.

Adrienne C
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    18 months late to the party, but I guess context could allow a further reduction to, "This helps a broke student", or even, given the widespread vast post-college debt situation, "This helps a student" :-) – tkp Jan 16 '17 at 03:11