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When should I use "eldest" and when should I use "oldest"?

Are the differences semantic or regional? (Or both?)

(What got me wondering is the removeEldestEntry() method in Java's LinkedHashMap class.)

Uticensis
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Sean Patrick Floyd
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3 Answers3

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Indeed, both eldest and oldest refer to the greatest in age. The crucial difference, however, lies in the fact that eldest can only be used for related persons, while oldest can be used for any person, place or thing in a group of related or unrelated elements. Examples:

  • He is the eldest/oldest of the three children.
  • Mine is the eldest/oldest car on the block.
  • John is the eldest (less common)/oldest student in my class.
  • She is the eldest (less common)/oldest of my nieces.
  • 'Is New York the eldest/oldest city in the US?'
  • He's the eldest (less common)/oldest in the brotherhood.

And while eldest can be used for any group of related persons, in reality, it is mostly only used in reference to siblings.

New Oxford American Dictionary (2nd Edition) definition of eldest:

(of one out of a group of related or otherwise associated people) of the greatest age; oldest

Jimi Oke
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    Thanks for the excellent answer. So the Usage in the Java class is wrong. – Sean Patrick Floyd Jan 21 '11 at 16:50
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    @Sean Patrick Floyd: You're welcome. Well, in strict grammatical terms, the sentence Remove eldest entry is incorrect, considering the definition of eldest. However, this is propriety language and Java can do whatever they want! In this sense, the command removeEldestEntry could be regarded as correct usage. Indeed, while the entries are related, they are not human, except, of course, one argues that Java personifies Entry, thus rendering it perfectly correct usage! This is not far-fetched in computer science. For instance, there are parent nodes and child nodes! – Jimi Oke Jan 21 '11 at 17:04
  • @Jimi: Agreed, but only if this usage of "eldest" actually refers to one child node compared to two or more other child nodes of the same parent; otherwise the reader might be mislead into thinking that it was such a child node &c. – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 21 '11 at 18:02
  • @Jimi: Does the same hold true when using elder and older as adjectives? Namely, elder for comparing a group of related persons and older for all other groups? – Scott Mitchell Jan 21 '11 at 19:38
  • @Cerberus: Definitely. I've not even come across eldest used in the context of node children, anyway...but then, I don't know much comp sci. By the way, what's "&c."? "And co./company?" – Jimi Oke Jan 21 '11 at 21:52
  • @Scott Mitchell: Indeed, the elder/older issue crossed my mind while answering this question, and I felt that that would be a whole new interesting question/discussion all by itself! In the first sense, yes, the usage of elder/older follows the same pattern as I described in my answer. In another sense, however, elder could refer to superiority/rank, as in elder statesman. See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elder?show=1&t=1295646840 for more on this. And, of course, there's the noun, elder, as you already mentioned below! – Jimi Oke Jan 21 '11 at 21:57
  • @Jimi Oke: "&c." is "etc." by another name (the "&", after all, being a stylised way of writing the latin "et" :-) – psmears Jan 21 '11 at 22:31
  • @psmears: Golly, who would have thought! I now see how it works, though. Thanks for enlightening me! One learns every day. – Jimi Oke Jan 21 '11 at 22:33
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    @Jimi: I think elder statesman, elderly woman &c are just remnants of past usage; I'd say "elder" is pretty much restricted to siblings in modern English. – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 21 '11 at 22:40
  • @Psmears: Stylised, or short: it is said to be first used as a ligature in manuscripts. In fact, it is the natural way to write "et" in non-shortened Merovingian minuscle handwriting; I haven't seen much Roman handwriting outside wax tablets, but my guess would be that it was first used in Merovingian times. – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 21 '11 at 22:45
  • @Cerberus: I would certainly consider using Merovingian minuscule these days to be stylised ;-) – psmears Jan 21 '11 at 22:54
  • @Psmears: Now why am I not surprised... on second thought, i.e. Wikipedia, it seems the et ligature already existed in some form from the first century AD onwards. – Cerberus - Reinstate Monica Jan 21 '11 at 23:38
  • See also, the person to the dealer's left in a game of cards: "the eldest hand". – TRiG Jun 23 '11 at 12:35
  • Now this isn’t right at all: eldest is a complete (but somewhat archaic or poetic) synonym for oldest, just as elder is a complete synonym for elder. – tchrist Jun 20 '12 at 01:59
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They are interchangeable; they both mean exactly the same thing. I think there is a general tendency to use eldest in relation to people, e.g.

John is my eldest son.

For some reason,

John is my oldest son

sounds wrong, almost like he's the son you've had for longest as opposed to him being the son with the greatest age.

Jimi Oke
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  • Interesting, in reference to @Jimi Oke's answer above. It would be useful if eldest/oldest could be used to make that distinction (oldest in actual age vs. oldest in the relationship given). For example, "Delaware is the oldest state in the Union, but Virginia is the eldest". Hmmm. Maybe not. :) – mattdm Jan 21 '11 at 20:36
  • @mattdm: Hmmm, interesting. Well, there is such a thing as personification! We often talk of sister cities/ sister states/ parent institutions. One hears phrases like elder establishment and the like. At the superlative, though, eldest is usually reserved for related persons. Your example, though, is not unfathomable if one considers the states as members (siblings) of the same family (union). – Jimi Oke Jan 21 '11 at 22:02
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Both are okay. Just elder, eldest are often used to replace older and oldest, nowadays.

apaderno
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Fiona Cheung
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    Elder and Older have some differences, though. Elder can be used as a noun, as in "Respect your elders," whereas older cannot. – Scott Mitchell Jan 21 '11 at 19:37
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    Also, I don't use "elder" in place of "older" most of the time. – Kosmonaut Jan 21 '11 at 19:54
  • @ScottMitchell The OED disagrees with you. It gives plenty of citations form the 20th century, and even one from the 21st. – tchrist Jun 20 '12 at 02:02
  • @tchrist, I can't see the OED entry, I don't have a subscription to the site. Are you saying that "Respect your olders" is a valid sentence? – Scott Mitchell Jun 20 '12 at 02:25
  • @ScottMitchell Yes, of course. Citations: “The olders say that the Creator told them to make their homesteads circular.” [1967]; “The ‘olders’, all volunteers, go through nine days of inservice training. They get one credit for their work with the grade-schoolers.” [1972] “Second graders are olders, kindergartners are youngers, for certain. But where do first graders fit?” [1997] “The Malay feudal system of old when the Sultan's must trusted council of olders were conferred a hereditary title.” [2001] You should be albe to access the OED through your school or public library. – tchrist Jun 20 '12 at 11:43
  • @ScottMitchell I would myself say elders for most of those citations, save maybe contrasting with youngers, but I cannot deny the evidence that there are indeed people who use olders where I would use elders. – tchrist Jun 20 '12 at 11:45