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How does one determine whether a song is in Dorian or Aeolian?

As an example:

The melody of Pink Floyd's "Another Brick in the Wall" seems to be in the Dorian mode, but there is a G chord in the second half of the verse. So would the song be considered Dorian overall, despite the "foreign" chord, or would it be Aeolian?

Aaron
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Dave
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  • For example in this thread. https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/1262/what-is-a-good-solo-to-learn-in-the-dorian-mode – Dave Aug 08 '20 at 17:54
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    Asked under false premises? – Tim Aug 08 '20 at 19:36
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    The harmony does not contain Bb, and does contain B (in the G chord). – user1079505 Aug 08 '20 at 20:37
  • The main reason for Dorian is the G-chord after the phrase "teacher leave these kids alone" containing a B as 3rd which is the major sixth of D Jonian! "All in all you're just another ..." is a minor sixth= Bb which speaks for Aeolian. But mind that the dorian mode often has a flattened sixth (b flat and b natural have been marked as "accidentally". That's the way that the ambiguity of flats or sharps has been developed. (Often it was up to the performer to decide which accidental he would choose.) So the modes can also show this ambiguity ... – Albrecht Hügli Aug 09 '20 at 19:06
  • From the point of modes the "tenor" tone should be A but this crucial note is a G! Btw. this is not a Greogorian chant, and Pop songs follow their own rules. – Albrecht Hügli Aug 09 '20 at 19:06
  • @AlbrechtHügli in English we say "Ionian," pronounced as four syllables ("eye-OH-nee-an"). Even I (and I speak German reasonably) read "Jonian" with a hard J, so for a split second I thought it had something to do with Joni Mitchell. :-) – phoog Oct 27 '22 at 10:02
  • yes, also in German it must be Ionian. – Albrecht Hügli Oct 31 '22 at 16:15

4 Answers4

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The dorian and aeolian scales differ by 6th step, which is Bb in D aeolian or B in D dorian. The chords used in the song: Dm, G, F, C all consist of notes from the D dorian scale, which suggests dorian harmony. The note Bb does not appear in the song.

The vocal melody has ambitus of just a sixth (C–A), and doesn't get to B neither at the top nor at the bottom. The guitar solo consistently jumps over the 6th step. The resulting scale: D E F G A C could be called D-minor hexatonic.

However, as the note B clearly appears in the song, I think it's more accurate to say the song bases on dorian harmony with melody omitting the 6th step.

If you play D dorian scale over the recording, it agrees, though the B note introduces a color which is apparently purposely avoided in the original. If you play A aeolian, it sounds either wrong, or suggests an alteration of the original harmony.

user1079505
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TL;DR

The song is not in Dorian or Aeolian. It's built around the D minor pentatonic scale.

But to understand how the determination is made...

From the Department of Taking Things too Far

There is general agreement that the primary pitches are D, E, F, G, A, C. So, here's a detailed look at the other pitches that occur in the song.

album version, part I

  • B: 00:21 - 00:24. Guitar lick.
  • B-something: 00:50 - 01:01. (implied) In neither the G5 power chord, nor in the vocal harmonies it accompanies, do I hear a clearly articulated B or Bb; however, I hear the chord more easily as G than Gm; possibly because B occurs before Bb in the G overtone series.
  • B: 00:29 - 00:30. Same as 00:21.
  • Ab: 01:38 - 01:40. To be really picky about figuring out the mode, one must acknowledge the A flat in the guitar.
  • B: 01:43 - 01:45. Same as 00:21.
  • Ab and Db: 01:48 - 01:51. A variation on 00:21.
  • B and Bb (and Gb): 01:53 - 01:56. Another variation on 00:21 .
  • B: Passing notes in the guitar at 02:17 - 02:18 (ascending) and (maybe, but definitely not B-flat) 02:27 - 02:28.
  • B: 02:31 - 02:33. Guitar ascending passing tone.

album version, part II

PULSE restored and re-edited

This is essentially the same as the album version of part II, except for the clear modulation to F from 01:24 - 01:43, which oscillates between F and Bb chords (temporary I and IV) before moving to a transitional C (V/F and bVII/D).

Bb chords occur during the guitar solo in the same context as the album version, part II, but more frequently. For example, 06:05 - 06:19.

Finally, during the guitar solo, at 04:43, there's a passing Eb.

Conclusion

It's easy to see why the song would be interpreted as Dorian: the primary note selection corresponds to that mode. B predominates by far, so can be considered far more influential in determining the mode than Bb. All other pitches (Db, Eb, Gb, Ab) are rare and clearly do not contribute to determining the mode. (Note that the Db in part I, 01:48, is playing the role of Db and not acting as the leading tone C#.)

However ...

This is not Dorian. To be truly modal, one would expect to hear far more of the B to emphasize the modality. Further, it would occur in different contexts. B only occurs when accompanied by G. In a truly Dorian setting, we would hear, say, B against the F chords, or in more rhythmically or melodically accented positions. Further, the only times we hear Bb, it's clearly intended as a chromatic alteration (part I, 01:53) or part of a modulation to F.

It's also not Tonal Minor. To be minor in the Tonal sense, there would have to be the presence of a leading tone; i.e., C#. This never occurs (see above regarding the Db).

It's also not Modal Aeolian (natural minor). To be Aeolian, Bb would be essential, and B to be avoided.

Therefore ...

The song is decidedly built around the D minor pentatonic scale, with lots of E for color, and a fair number of G-B pairs just to make things confusing also for color, but occurring through modal mixture via D major, rather than as an indication a true Dorian.

Aaron
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  • How can this be pentatonic when it prominently features six pitch classes? – phoog Oct 27 '22 at 10:05
  • @phoog I said “built around”, and gave a more than thorough explanation. How can a piece be in C major if it has an f# in it? – Aaron Oct 27 '22 at 14:50
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    Major and minor tonality aren't defined by scale. Pentatonic is. – phoog Oct 27 '22 at 20:48
  • @phoog That's far too restrictive. Pieces built primarily around any particular scale can vary from that scale. – Aaron Oct 27 '22 at 21:03
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    I'll have to back up phoog here - you conclude by saying "The song is decidedly D minor pentatonic", with the "built around" not being clear enough, especially at this point. – Dekkadeci Oct 29 '22 at 18:07
  • @Dekkadeci That's helpful, thanks. Does the revised language (just that sentence) better communicate the conclusion? – Aaron Oct 29 '22 at 18:09
  • @Aaron Yes, the revised language for that sentence does communicate your conclusion better. – Dekkadeci Oct 29 '22 at 18:40
  • Sorry, was traveling for a bit so lost sight of this. "Pieces built primarily around any particular scale can vary from that scale": on what basis can one decide that a piece using D, E, F, G, A, C is pentatonic with an added note or Dorian with an omitted note? To me it seems that my comment is restrictive because the definition of pentatonic is restrictive. One prominent characteristic of the minor pentatonic scale is that it contains no half steps, so the opening phrases of the song with their emphasis on D-E-F-E-D put us squarely outside pentatonic territory. (also @Dekkadeci) – phoog Nov 01 '22 at 12:45
  • On top of that, your own analysis shows that B natural is prominent and B flat is used rarely for color. The proposition that B natural should be more frequently juxtaposed against F to be "truly Dorian" doesn't have any basis. This answer basically says "look how prominent B is, but it's not prominent enough to be Dorian." The closer I look, the more I'm convinced that the analysis in this answer is correct and that it points to the conclusion that the song is correctly analysed as Dorian. – phoog Nov 01 '22 at 14:09
  • @phoog I don't restrict Dorian to B against F. That's an example of a larger concept, and I also describe the lack of B in rhythmically and melodically significant moments. The song, overall, does not have a "Dorian sound". My entire answer is built around your question of how one decides whether a piece using a particular note collection is interpreted one way or another, and harmonic, rhythmic, and melodic context is how that's done. – Aaron Nov 01 '22 at 14:38
  • It sounds very much Dorian to me -- on account of the prominent B naturals, no less. That B only occurs with G is not a convincing argument since G major, a chord featured prominently in this song (at rhythmically and harmonically significant moments, if not melodically) is among the principal elements that distinguishes D Dorian from D Aeolian. You cite all this evidence in favor of Dorian but then discount it all without any firm reason. I'd be interested to hear an example of a piece that you do think sounds Dorian. It might help explain why you don't think this piece sounds Dorian. – phoog Nov 01 '22 at 22:02
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I don’t remember the details of the chorus, but B natural is pretty prominent throughout the verse. For instance the first chord after the d minor i chord is a G major IV chord. It’s true that lots of professional transcriptions will still have a flat in the key signature, under the rule (which I think is a bad rule) that you should always use the nearest minor or major key signature, but the Bb is naturalized throughout the verse.

Again, maybe that changes for the chorus, in which case we would say that there’s some kind of modal shift there, but the majority of the song is in D Dorian, regardless of any key signatures.

Pat Muchmore
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This song contains both B and B&flat. Putting it not into any mode, but squarely into D minor. Many pieces in D minor will use both these notes - they're found in the melodic minor scale.

But in any case, as Laurence Payne states - a song doesn't have to choose one mode and stick to it. There may be some rules pertinent in music, but that's certainly not one of them!

Tim
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