Natural followed by sharp in Chopin Waltz in C-sharp minor

Question

In Chopin's Waltz in C-sharp minor (Op. 64, No. 2), I'm a bit confused by the following notation in the third measure:

The F has a natural, cancelling out the sharp in the key signature. But then it instantly becomes an F-sharp again. Once more there is no note to play for the accidental, so I don't understand what this piece of notation is telling me.

I would guess I play the F-natural and then the G, then the next F in the bar I play as an F-sharp?

Maybe there is a G natural in the preceding bars which would account for the courtesy accidental on the G... — John Belzaguy, Sep 11 '20 at 14:57
@JohnBelzaguy Looking back at the previous bar. There is an F double sharp. So would the accidental flatten it to an F and the sharp make it an F sharp again? Not sure. — Mathlearner, Sep 11 '20 at 14:59
There’s your answer by @mattputnam, +1. The natural-sharp in your version is an odd way to cancel a double sharp. I think his version is much easier to read, after all we’re all supposed to know that an accidental is good only for the bar it’s in, right? ;) — John Belzaguy, Sep 11 '20 at 15:10
a related question: With sheet music, what happens with sharps and double sharps that are already sharped in the key signature? — Aaron, Sep 12 '20 at 05:12
As other comments and answers observe: this is both awkward typesetting and dubious editor's choice about how to emphasize that the previous double-sharp has expired. — paul garrett, Jan 18 '24 at 22:09
@paulgarrett awkward or not, dubious or not, it was the standard way of doing it for about 250 years, from the invention of the double sharp sign in the early 18th century until the late 20th century. — phoog, Jan 19 '24 at 08:54
@phoog, hm, ok, but I my copy of that Chopin valse doesn't do that, and, although I've seen plenty of double sharps, I do not recall that pattern. Maybe I was just oblivious... :) — paul garrett, Jan 19 '24 at 15:53

score 11 · Accepted Answer · answered Sep 11 '20 at 15:02

11

The previous measure has an F double-sharp:

The natural-sharp is to remind you that it's no longer double sharp.

answered Sep 11 '20 at 15:02

MattPutnam

22,379
2
52
95

1

Obviously the correct answer - made more clear with sight of the previous bar - as suspected, Fx. However, the OP's copy is poor. There's really no need for anything, but if someything was put in, it needed to be in parentheses, as a cutionary, surely? +1 – Tim Sep 11 '20 at 15:17
1

Yes, the original score is bad practice - a # in front of an f means f sharp, NQA, no matter what the context and the key signature is. Writing "natural + accidental" just confuses this rule. – Kilian Foth Sep 11 '20 at 15:24
1

Natural-sharp like this is actually pretty common and not usually an issue. I don't like it here, mainly because with the F-G cluster it's easy to think one of the accidentals is for the F and the other is for the G (in this case, it would be F-natural and G#). Parentheses are optional. – MattPutnam Sep 11 '20 at 15:42

Laurence · Answer 2 · 2020-09-11T15:39:33.320

You need to look at the previous bar as well. There's a Fx (F double-sharp). Technically, this reverts to the single sharp of the key signature in the next bar. Some editions therefore omit any accidental. Some (like the one below) add a cautionary # on the F. Your example uses the old convention of cancelling a double-sharp with a natural-sharp.

Either way, the note in question is F♯. The other note in the dyad is G♯, according to the key signature. And it IS a dyad, a two-note chord. To be played together. The offset - one note each side of the stem - is purely to avoid an ugly printing collision.

score 2 · Answer 3 · answered Sep 11 '20 at 15:22

2

To address the last part of your question - both the F(♯) and G(♯) are played at the same time - they just got printed to look like they do, as there isn't room on one side of the stem! Don't ever think of playing them one after the other - that's not correct.

answered Sep 11 '20 at 15:22

Tim

192,860
17
187
471

Certainly true! :) – paul garrett Jan 18 '24 at 22:08

Natural followed by sharp in Chopin Waltz in C-sharp minor

3 Answers3