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I am finding confusing information concerning guitar string 6's frequency. Many articles claim it to be E2. How can it be E2 when string 6 is E below middle C which is E3?

ejbpesca
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4 Answers4

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The guitar is a quasi-transposing instrument because it sounds an octave lower than written. When we read E3 on a score and then play the lowest string on the guitar, the sound that comes out is E2. When we read middle C on the score and play the third fret of the A string the sound that comes out is C3.

For transposing instruments, each fingering has two pitches related to it. There’s the “written” pitch, which means when we see that note in sheet music, we play that fingering. The other pitch related to a specific fingering is the “concert” pitch, which is the pitch (similar to frequency) that we hear coming from the instrument as the actual sound.

On the guitar, every fingering has a concert pitch that is an octave lower than the written pitch. So when we see middle C written on the page, we play the fifth string, third fret. And when we play that, what we hear is an octave below middle C.

Since every string and fret combination on guitar has two pitches associated with it, we have to give two answers to the question “is string five, fret 3 middle C?” It is and it isn’t. It is middle C written, but it’s an octave below middle C concert.

Todd Wilcox
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    To be more concrete the guitar is what we consider a tenor instrument, which are notated in treble clef but sound an octave lower. – Lazy Apr 05 '23 at 13:50
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    Why the phrase “quasi-transposing”? “Octave transposing” is a standard phrase and description for instruments like guitar, flute and piccolo to name a few. – John Belzaguy Apr 05 '23 at 16:22
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    @JohnBelzaguy There’s no way to talk about guitar transposition without getting criticism for the terminology used, so I made up my own term - not to avoid criticism, but to own the criticism. – Todd Wilcox Apr 05 '23 at 17:09
  • @ToddWilcox No criticism intended, just a query. Whenever I hear something unfamiliar related to music I like to find out if I’ve missed something. – John Belzaguy Apr 05 '23 at 20:20
  • Oh, in my previous comment I meant to type “bass”, not “flute”. I missed the 5 minute edit window for comments…by 2.5 hours – John Belzaguy Apr 05 '23 at 20:22
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    It's a 'transposing instrument'. More specifically, an 'octave transposing instrument'. Nothing quasi about it. – Laurence Apr 05 '23 at 20:55
  • I am referring to E2 and E3 as frequencies. They both are not the same. Is string 5 fret 3 not middle C = 261.6 Hz? – ejbpesca Apr 06 '23 at 10:55
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    @ejbpesca When you see middle C written on the page, you play string 5, fret 3. When you play string 5, fret 3, what comes out of the guitar is the C an octave below middle C. That is normal and it is how the guitar works. Technically, E2, E3, and middle C are not frequencies, they are pitches. Pitches are related to frequencies but they are different. – Todd Wilcox Apr 06 '23 at 11:13
  • I found a chart giving a frequency value to the alphanumeric designation of C4 of 261.6 Hz and C4 as piano key in the middle of the keyboard calling that middle C. Is string 5 fret 3 not middle C/C4? If not, what key on the piano is its equivalent? – ejbpesca Apr 06 '23 at 11:29
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    @ejbpesca “Is string 5 fret 3 not middle C/C4?” Yes and no. It both is middle C and it isn’t middle C at the sand time. We call it “middle C” and we write down middle C on staff paper when we want a guitarist to play fret 3 string 5. But when the guitarist plays that note, we don’t hear middle C. What we hear is the C one octave below middle C, C3. That’s what “transposing” means. – Todd Wilcox Apr 06 '23 at 11:59
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    In a sane world, guitar would be notated with an explicit octave-shifted treble clef — with a small subscript ‘8’ to indicate that the notes sound an octave lower than written — and there would be no ambiguity (nor any need to pretend that it's a transposing instrument)… – gidds Apr 06 '23 at 15:37
  • @gidds If the clef with the 8 at the bottom is used, then the guitar doesn’t sound an octave lower than written, because that clef indicates to play an octave lower than treble clef. That would be a way for guitarists to read the same way they read now and no longer be playing a transposing instrument. – Todd Wilcox Apr 06 '23 at 19:11
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    There are no transposing instruments. There is only transposing notation. And yes, it should be a treble clef with an 8 subscript. – Theo Tiger Apr 07 '23 at 21:49
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Guitar is written in treble clef, but sounds an octave lower than written. Sometimes we use the 'treble (down 8)' clef which makes this transposition explicit.

There are (at least) two numbering conventions for pitch. One of them calls Middle C 'C4'. Another calls it 'C3'. But whatever you call it, guitar sounds one octave lower. enter image description here

Laurence
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  • Is there a functional purpose to not placing guitar notes to the staff at the correct position of their sound? – ejbpesca Apr 06 '23 at 11:00
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    @ejbpesca Yes, you want them in the staff where they can be easily read, not a messy bunch of ledger lines below. – Divizna Apr 06 '23 at 11:38
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    @Divizna That makes sense as to why you wouldn't write them as-heard on a treble clef. But for me, it just shifts the question - why not place the notes in the correct position on a bass clef? No extra ledger lines required. – Nuclear Hoagie Apr 06 '23 at 13:18
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    @NuclearHoagie I guess because way fewer people are literate in the bass clef than treble. (And when a guitarist makes the effort to learn a second system, they're likely to go with tabs.) – Divizna Apr 06 '23 at 13:42
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    @NuclearHoagie treble clef is actually optimal in terms of the number of ledger lines needed to notate lots of guitar music, see https://music.stackexchange.com/q/101432/63781 and https://music.stackexchange.com/q/118892/63781 – user1079505 Apr 06 '23 at 18:34
  • @NuclearHoagie Putting guitar on bass clef would require a ridiculous number of ledger lines above the bass clef for the higher octaves of the guitar. Treble clef means three ledger lines down to the lowest E on the guitar and three ledger lines above for the highest E. It’s kinda perfect for the guitar’s range. – Todd Wilcox Apr 06 '23 at 19:18
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Empty guitar strings are:

  • great E, aka E2, ~82.4 Hz
  • great A, aka A2, 110 Hz
  • small d, aka D3, ~147 Hz
  • small g, aka G3, ~196 Hz
  • small b, aka B3, ~247 Hz
  • one-lined e', aka E4, ~330 Hz

Neither the high E nor the low E string is the small e (E3).
The high E (string 1) is the one-lined e' (E4), a major third above middle C and a fourth below chamber A.
The low E (string 6) is the great E (E2).

Divizna
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  • This answer addresses the question without any extraneous information. Thank you. – Wastrel Apr 06 '23 at 14:12
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    Great E? Small D? One-lined E? This is a notation I've never heard of before; I'd be interested in learning more about it. Is it a guitar-specific thing, or a regional thing, or what? – Hearth Apr 06 '23 at 14:49
  • @Hearth Regional, it seems. I'm afraid the numbered notation feels rather foreign to me in turn - that is something I've seen at the English-speaking internet and nowhere else. Wikipedia has an article, and a handy table in the Octave article. – Divizna Apr 06 '23 at 15:42
  • @Divizna I had no idea Helmholtz did research into acoustic physics; I know of him for a few contributions to my field, electrical engineering. You say english-speaking; what language does your notation usually get used in? I'd guess German, as Helmholtz was German? – Hearth Apr 06 '23 at 18:35
  • @Hearth I don't know. It's definitely the unambiguous standard in my country, and unsurprisingly, it seems to be the standard for German-speaking places, too. Other than that, beats me. If I were to guess, I'd place my bet on "the entire northern half of Europe from British Isles to Russia", but it's really just a largely uninformed guess and I may be completely wrong. – Divizna Apr 08 '23 at 14:38
  • @Divizna - I haven't seen it used like that in Britain, so maybe not :-) – Doktor Mayhem Apr 11 '23 at 15:38
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In standard tuning guitar string 6 produces E2.

ejbpesca
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