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I deduce there could be these permutations of the universe.

Temporally, it is either bounded or unbounded.

If it is bounded, then it is possible God could exist to have created the universe. If God did create the universe, did God create the universe to have a fate?, and it and every event within that universe was predetermined by God. It would seem in this universe that Freewill is either comapatable with Gods predetermined universe or it is not.

However, if the universe is unbounded, then can it be argued that a God could not have created the universe because creation is temporal. If God could not have created the universe, then does the universe have no fate, and it has not been predetermined by a God. If the universe is not predetermined and has no beginning, then there is no particular event in time that determines the others. Is this therefore a strong argument for free will if this is the case?

So in summary, if we propose the universe to have no beginning, is that a guarantee that there is no God or creation, but however there is free will?

So can we only determine whether we have free will for certain, if we can determine that the universe is eternal?

8Mad0Manc8
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  • how could you be "certain" (about anything), if god not existed? (#gotcha!;) 2. God is "never" "there" ((s)he ever exists! is NOT there;) 3. how can a limited ("thinking"/conscious) being distinguish between "real free will" and "fake free will"? (#this would be much better question with chance on a decent/practical answer)
  • – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 20:00
  • @xerx593 My proposition is that if the universe has a begining the future could be determined from that begining or it could be predetermined. If the universe had no beginning then it could not be predetermined. Determinism is a refutation of the idea of free will. However some say determinism is compatable with free will. However I'm asking if the universe is unbounded can you therfore be certain of free will as there could be no determinism if that was the case. – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 20:08
  • a riddle: what is finite and(!) infinite, what has a beginning and no beginning?? (solution: (e.g.) a circle!?;) – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 20:12
  • the (fine) difference between determinism and indeterminism is only relevant to an "omni-scient" being ...which i not am. but also the "common (actual) empiric-theoretic sense" is: the universe has a beginning (called "Big Bang") ...and the movement of big-small objects is "predestined" – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 20:19
  • @xerx593 Yes it is a riddle wrapped up in an enigma wrapped up in a mystery, and your right a circle has no beginning or end, as does a mobius strip which has a higher dimension than a circle. Like the Bruce Lee icon on your profile :-) – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 20:19
  • #riddle: yes, the problem with us "meat balls": what (the heck) is "infinity"?? ...i still don't know, but if someone asks/forces me to produce it, i knew how to trick ;) ...let's re-phrase 1. how could you be "certain" about anything if "truth" didn't exist? – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 20:41
  • @xerx593 If the truth existed then there would be no place to go if we determined that truth? – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 20:47
  • truth exists (otherwise we could not communicate). false "materialises" (also sort of "exists" ever ...lets call it "persists" otherwise we neither could communicate!;). – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 20:56
  • @xerx593 I'm not a solipsist and understand we are communicating. I was referring to the capital 'T' truth, or the absolute truth, and if we were ever able to determine that. – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 21:05
  • which "truth" than "the absolute" could make us communicate? and what do you mean by "determine"? (no, you can nor describe nor name "the eternal truth". ..since "name" and "description" is not eternal) – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 21:28
  • @xerx593 It's probably a barrier to our communication in the way I express my idea and how logic works within my mind.We can determine 'truths" if an argument is valid and is logically sound. It's conclusion is a subject of the truth. Science make falsifiable claims and they become the truth unless further evidence deems them false in which case another conjecture, hypothesis supported by evidence and is testable replaces it. We could go in roundabouts if we have to define every word we use to communicate such as 'determine'. I don't like roundabouts they make me dizzy :-) – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 21:44
  • To "determine truth" just be "honest"!;) (To be "honest", you must be "clear"...;) – xerx593 Jan 02 '24 at 22:38
  • @xerx593 If your asking that there is no way of determining any truth? I would beg to differ. I would argue that not every statement is false, which statements are true. I could not determine however :-) – 8Mad0Manc8 Jan 02 '24 at 23:02