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19th century English texts occasionally use germanic-style number words, such as “four-and-twenty”. When did this fall out of use?

In Arabic and even in several European languages (e.g. German) one reads the lower ranks digit first.

  • German => 24 is read vierundzwanzig
  • Arabic => 24 (٢٤) is read Arba3aton wa 3echroun" (أربعةٌ وعشرون).

In Old English you find the same order:

  • Old English => 24 is read féower ond twentig.
  • Present Day English => twenty four.

So it looks like the reading order has changed at some point. The question is: why and when ?

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Alain Pannetier Φ
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  • Uhm... I think the Germanic languages would be more relevant to your question... A quick search on my own revealed that also in Danish they say 4-20, which should be firetyve but I'm looking for confirmation. – Alenanno May 13 '11 at 15:21
  • Well, it was after 1744, but I guess you knew that, given the example you chose. Unless you were just going for the drug reference. – Michael Lorton May 13 '11 at 15:33
  • I know in persian ,24 => بیست و چهار, like present day English. –  May 13 '11 at 15:46
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    Careful here, note how a German would read 124: einhundertvierundzwanzig. The reading order is mixed. Also note the funny things the French do between 60 and 100. – dmckee --- ex-moderator kitten May 13 '11 at 15:46
  • It may be a Northern England thing (which is generally closer to Middle English), or less formal education — but my grandparents would say four and twenty. – mgb May 13 '11 at 15:48
  • @dmckee: 124 in german is einhundertvierundzwanzig. –  May 13 '11 at 15:51
  • @Malvolio, it's just that I learned German before English and, being French, I had always taken it for granted that English was "right" to use he same order as in French... till the day I poke my long nose into Old English. To my great surprise I then found another proof of the kinship between OE and German. All in all, even though I found various (conflicting) explanations, it seems EL&U is the right place to get to the bottom of it. – Alain Pannetier Φ May 13 '11 at 15:52
  • @Alain : there are many positive things that can be said about the French culture and language -- I can't think of any but I'm sure they're out there -- however, the French number system leaves much to be desired. Consider quatre vingt seize, "four times twenty plus sixteen" or as we non-batrachiophages would say, ninety-six. – Michael Lorton May 13 '11 at 16:01
  • @Malvolio, granted ! Given your pseudo, I think you will probably understand: "Ogni Scarrafone è bello a Mamma sua". Exceptions is possibly what makes any language interesting. French and English are probably on a par level in this respect. – Alain Pannetier Φ May 13 '11 at 16:09
  • Malvolio, just reading your comment confirms that I took the right decision when I decided to come to this site. Continuez, s'il-vous-plaît! – Georges Elencwajg May 13 '11 at 16:15
  • @Alain, thank you very much. That might be the most useful proverb I have ever read. I'm going to email it to my momma in Tuscany. – Michael Lorton May 13 '11 at 16:16

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This is a very interesting question, but also a very complicated one.
It seems that the Jains, the believers in the old Indian religion Jainism, have invented the positional numeration ( at least they seem to have written the oldest known texts on the subject). Positional numeration means describing all integers with just ten digits whose value varies according to their position in the written representation and, of course, this necessitates the use of a zero digit which has no intrinsic value but functions as a placeholder.
The information relevant to the question is that they enunciated numbers by starting with the digit for units, then that for dozens, etc. In other words, the order opposite to the one used in contemporary English.

This does not answer the OP's question, but at least, since there have been deviations, we know from what they were deviations. I'm adding a link to a text (in French, unfortunately) by a historian who, interestingly for the users of this site, also evokes the Indian grammarian Panini. The point most relevant to our discussion is on page 199.

Georges Elencwajg
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