There is a saying in India, "Playing the flute to a buffalo" (is wasteful), generally used in the context of knowledge imparting to a stupid person. At the end of the day, stupidity still remains. Is there an English equivalent for that?
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It was first used in the Bible (Matthew 7:6), so it originally had religious overtones, but you can use it in the secular sense too:
(idiomatic) To give things of value to those who will not understand or appreciate it.
-- Wiktionary
MissMonicaE
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Gary
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10Based on the context of "a stupid person," this seems to be not quite right. My interpretation is that the swine are heathens, rather than someone who is stupid. – Evan May 03 '17 at 19:50
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1This is not an idiomatic expression in modern English. It would not be widely understood or recognized. – aaa90210 May 03 '17 at 22:55
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8@Evan Good point, but as Gary says, the notion of a swine has shifted a little from representing a heathen to a churl, particularly in highly secular / religiously diverse English speaking cultures like England, Australia, NZ, Canada. I have always understood the expression as Gary cites it and recall being a little indignant about it as a small child as I rather liked pigs and still do. – Selene Routley May 04 '17 at 00:37
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9@aaa90210 I'm not "modern" but I'm not old either... and this is the first thought in my mind. I think this is a very relevant phrase - if not exactly something Rihanna or the Jenners would say. – WernerCD May 04 '17 at 03:22
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4@aaa90210 This was also the first sentence that came to mind. "Pearls before swine" was a 60s psychchedelic band ;) – roetnig May 04 '17 at 06:52
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8@aaa90210 speak for yourself. I'd recognise it and probably use it, even though I'm not religious and did not know it was a biblical quote. – nigel222 May 04 '17 at 09:27
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2@aaa90210: simply put, you're wrong. But with the right spin, that could mean that you're part of today's lucky 10,000. :) – Marthaª May 04 '17 at 13:43
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1@Marthaª I am correct, the fact a few language nerds on this website understand it does NOT make it a modern idiomatic expression. – aaa90210 May 04 '17 at 20:25
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4@aaa90210 ...Or maybe you're just ignorant of this one? It's a pretty common expression. Take it from someone with 0 rep on this site (though there's already been a couple others to tell you that). – Chris Hayes May 05 '17 at 00:38
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1@ChrisHayes I am ignorant of many biblical quotes, however that has little relevance to whether a term is idiomatic in modern English, if anything it supports my argument. – aaa90210 May 05 '17 at 01:04
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2This was the first quote that popped in my mind too and was going to post it as an answer. I hear this quote quite often so not sure why people are arguing that it wouldn't be widely understood or recognized. – kojow7 May 05 '17 at 06:32
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6@aaa90210, what evidence would convince you to change your mind? "Pearls before swine" is in every dictionary I checked. It has 33 hits on the Corpus of Contemporary American English. I think most educated people would recognize it, but if people don't recognize it, the imagery should be suggestive enough for them to get the meaning. – dangph May 05 '17 at 09:57
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2Pearls before Swine is the exact contextual equivalent of the OP's question in Hindi (Bhaiens key samney been bajana). Though I was not aware of its Biblical origin, the very idea of something precious being offered to a "dirty" animal has the associative effect of wasteful activity/gesture – Vishnoo Rath May 06 '17 at 09:53
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I would have to agree with aaa90210 here. This may be a common expression in some bible belt town in the US, but using this elsewhere will just generate confusion. – James May 06 '17 at 11:21
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This has nothing to do with the question. This aphorism means "to give useful advice/knowledge to people who don't think it has and value", which although is a waste of time, the emphasis is on the missed opportunity of the listeners to learn something. – Bohemian May 06 '17 at 11:23
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@aaa90210 you are simply wrong. In fact, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the daily comic by the same name, by Stephen Pastis. So anyone who reads the funnies in the newspaper knows this phrase, even if they don't completely understand it. – thc May 08 '17 at 01:55
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@thc "even if they don't completely understand it" - I think you just proved my point. – aaa90210 May 08 '17 at 02:17
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1Definitely not a common idiomatic turn of phrase these days, but I like Shakespeare's variant on "pearls before swine":
'twas caviar to the general(Hamlet Act 2 Sc 2). This is Hamlet to the Player King on a speech which he liked but which most people ("the general") did not appreciate, much as most people wouldn't (Hamlet asserts!) appreciate caviar. – AAT May 08 '17 at 14:32
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You have the saying: Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.
It is a quote by Robert A. Heinlein which has become quite common
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46"Never wrestle with a pig. You'll get dirty and the pig enjoys it.", "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.", "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." – Mitch May 03 '17 at 13:07
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9While great turns of phrases, these are not sayings; they are quotes ascribed to noted authors and, as such, are not so universally known. – Dancrumb May 03 '17 at 19:12
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This reminds me of a line from Kurt Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle: "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way." – Evan May 03 '17 at 19:55
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@Dancrumb the meaning is pretty clear, so they don't need to be known in advance. They'll be understood when heard by anyone above the fool or idiot referred to! – nigel222 May 04 '17 at 09:10
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You need to know your animals. There's a different context for teaching a horse to sing based on an alleged Chinese fable about the man who offended an Emperor and bought himself a year of extra life before his execution by saying he could teach the emperor's horse to sing. When told this is futile, he responds "who knows.The emperor may die. I may die. And maybe, just maybe, the horse might learn to sing". – nigel222 May 04 '17 at 09:33
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6@Dancrumb, I actually heard this phrase before I read Heinlein's books. Just because you, personally, know who originally said it doesn't mean it isn't cultural knowledge. – Robert Rapplean May 04 '17 at 17:58
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@Mitch I learnt those way back in my first 3 months of IT consultancy - a very apposite environment for them – johnc May 08 '17 at 22:14
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TFD(idioms):
like talking to a wall
Of a conversation, completely futile due to a lack of response from another person, often because the person isn't listening.Talking to Eddie when he's watching TV is like talking to a wall!
Farlex Dictionary of Idioms. © 2015 Farlex, Inc, all rights reserved.
alwayslearning
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- to fall on deaf ears (to be ignored or pass unnoticed)
Given that a buffalo is not stupid, per se, but only regarded as such in our environment as opposed to its own, I think the above expression is a reasonably good fit.
mungflesh
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2This doesn't really answer the OP. If a request falls on deaf ears, the people who heard it might well understand it but choose not to respond. In the OP's situation the people who heard it don't appreciate it. – Rosie F May 04 '17 at 09:33
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Banging your head against a brick wall
to do, say, or ask for something repeatedly but to be unable to change a situation
JMP
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c.f. stonewalling, to delay or obstruct (a request, process, or person) by refusing to answer questions or by being evasive. This might be the reason for "brick" in the expressions where inertness rather than hostility is implied. – nigel222 May 04 '17 at 09:14
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2This doesn't really answer the OP. The reason why the effort is futile is that it seems impossible to achieve the desired result. There needn't be any audience at all. In the OP's situation the person can achieve the desired result but the audience does not appreciate it. – Rosie F May 04 '17 at 09:30
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This phrase suggests the futility of some endeavor; for example, the futility of an attempt to impart wisdom to one not ready to receive it.
"The teacher told Carl to study before the test, but she was whistling in the wind."
This, and this suggest that the phrase "Bhains ke aage been bajana" points to the futility of playing a tune before an insensitive audience (I see no mention of stupidity). I would submit that the wind is at least as incapable of appreciating a whistled tune as a buffalo is of appreciating a fluted tune.
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I'd suggest that is not the same sentiment as OP's version - it describes a futile action, but does not imply the target is dumb (the buffalo). – John U May 05 '17 at 08:59
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@JohnU-- See the update to my answer. While OP mentions stupidity as a contextual feature of the idiom, I don't see this in the references I have found. On the other hand, futility does seem to be a salient feature of this expression. – May 05 '17 at 13:45
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Not yet had:
Showing a dog a card trick
Both a waste of your time (and the dog's) but also implies the dog will not understand/appreciate it.
Similar but not identical: Herding cats (an impossible / pointless task)
John U
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It's over his/her head
From Cambridge dictionary:
Too difficult or strange for you to understand:
I tried to take in what he was saying about nuclear fusion, but most of it went over my head.
EleventhDoctor
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There may be thousands of regional variations. One I've heard is...
giving strawberries to a donkey
It's a pointless waste of strawberries which are a bit of a luxury item. The donkey won't appreciate and savour them, it will just scoff them all the same as if they were a carrot or a hand full of grass.
Matt E. Эллен
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BenCr
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A lot of it depends on context. If the context is referring to an individual not understanding, Casting Pearls Among Swine might be most appropriate. If the proverbial flutist doesn't know he is wasting his time, Whistling in the Wind seems appropriate. I would offer a new phrase: If the flutist knows he is wasting time, but doing it anyway Spinning Your Wheels might be good (this is generally a reference to someone whose car is stuck in the mud, but they hit the gas anyway in a futile attempt to get out).
However, I once heard an Indian saying that could work very nicely: "Playing the flute to a buffalo"--the implications translate well to English. See what I did there.
Andrew
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When I was teaching in a high school, we had a principal who loved to use a phrase that has to be a very old saying from deep country. He would say, "You are grinning up a dead mules butt, boy." He would always look the person directly in the eyes and grin.
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Something else that could be said:
the lights are on but nobody is home
or more appropriately
a few sandwiches short of a picnic
emphasizing that person lacks in mental aptitude
LittleFighter
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3I'd say "no" to this one. It does imply that the subject is, well, "dim," but it doesn't speak to the *situation at hand" - someone trying to explain something to the subject, and that being a waste of the speaker's time or effort. – Bob Gilmore May 04 '17 at 19:15
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
(implies knowledge not actual food)
user234305
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Flogging a dead horse
is used to refer to trying to make someone do something that they are never going to do in a futile attempt.
JTanner
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4I thought this meant continuing an action past the point of completion, so that it becomes useless--i.e. you already beat the horse to death, so you might as well stop. – MissMonicaE May 03 '17 at 19:40
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I think the beating is not the cause of the horse's dath. I thinkthe excessive demands exhausted the horse to the death. – Crowley May 03 '17 at 19:55
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@Crowley and MissMonicaE, the expression says nothing about the cause of the horse's death. That's not the point. The point is: a whip administered to a live horse is likely to have an effect; administering one to a dead horse is entirely wasted effort. – May 03 '17 at 20:44
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And it seems to translate pretty well to english
– Rolexel May 05 '17 at 13:23