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In American English fast speech, I have noticed that the 'd' sound in words like 'birdy' and 'guardian' sometimes appears to be pronounced as a voiced retroflex plosive (/ɖ/) instead of the standard voiced alveolar plosive (/d/). I would like to know if this is a recognized phenomenon.

AehkGuu
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  • Try as I might, I see no difference in any AmE or BrE for those d's except for the Boston accent for guardian, pronounced gardian. – Lambie May 13 '23 at 15:32
  • @Lambie Sorry I didn't ask the question right. What I meant was if the 'd' in those words is a retroflex sound in fast speech. –  May 13 '23 at 15:50
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    I don't think English has that sound. According to Wikipedia that would be for Indian English. – Lambie May 13 '23 at 16:37
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    Almost certainly, this is related to the fact that some Americans use a retroflex approximant [ɻ] for their /r/ phoneme. The retroflexing of the /d/ must be some sort of assimilation effect. I’ve never noticed it myself, but it seems plausible, especially in Texas and other Southern regions where the retroflex /r/ is used. – Graham H. May 13 '23 at 18:42
  • As usual, when the tongue is moved to a specific position and the next sound can be pronounced from that position, a certain number of speakers will avoid moving it again. Hence the retroflexion in some pronunciations of /rd/-containing words. – John Lawler May 13 '23 at 20:03
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    Bird-y? I can only say it like this: [burr]-dy. – Lambie May 13 '23 at 22:24
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    Are you sure that this isn't related to flapping? – alphabet May 13 '23 at 22:35
  • That said, the Wikipedia recording for [ɖ] certainly sounds quite a bit like the standard pronunciation of /rd/. – alphabet May 14 '23 at 03:02
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    Like @GrahamH., I hadn’t consciously thought of this, but I just tried deliberately pronouncing guardian and birdy with a retroflex [ɖ], and it feels and sounds completely normal. I’m not sure if I do it normally in regular speech, but I’m pretty sure it’s something I have done, and definitely have heard others do. It’s certainly not like (most dialects of) Swedish or Norwegian where /rd/ and /rt/ mandatorily yield [ɖ] and [ʈ], but I’d say it’s definitely an existing allophone. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 14 '23 at 11:54
  • retroflex, in phonetics, a consonant sound produced with the tip of the tongue curled back toward the hard palate. [Britannica]. I'm sorry but I don't buy it. How do you even say birdy with the "tongue curled back"?? – Lambie May 14 '23 at 16:34
  • If you pronounce a /d/ as a flap, it's possible the tip of the tongue would go up beyond and behind the alveolar ridge forming a retroflex consonant. Whether this happens, I don't know. (When saying /i/ or similar sounds the tip of the tongue is normally below the alveolar ridge so it seems unlikely.) – Stuart F May 14 '23 at 16:39
  • @StuartF Come on, to say birdy the tongue remains flat when lifted. More or less of the tongue can be lifted but I cannot see how it can "curl back". – Lambie May 14 '23 at 17:05
  • @StuartF Conversely, for many American speakers, the tip of the tongue is already curled back towards the rear part of the alveolar ridge when pronouncing /r/, so a retroflex realisation of /d/ would simply be a slight delay in the timing of when the tongue is moved back to a flatter position in preparation for the /i/. – Janus Bahs Jacquet May 17 '23 at 11:06
  • How could this be about American English fast speech, rather than some specific US American English accents? Are you saying the same retroflex 'd' shows up in the word 'guardian' from California to Carolina; from Montana to Texas? – Robbie Goodwin Sep 16 '23 at 18:44

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I believe the sound you're hearing there is not a retroflex plosive but a retroflex tap or flap, transcribed as [ɽ]. The /d/ in guardian satisfies the American English flapping rules (see Wiki), since the stress is on the first syllable of that word. I doubt that many American speakers have an actual plosive there; I certainly don't. Instead, it's the same sound as the voiced /t/ in party. The end of the first syllable of guardian may sound different from that of party, since the latter undergoes prefortis clipping, but the consonant sound there is certainly the same (at least when I say them).

If so, you're absolutely correct that an [ɽ] can occur there, in place of either /d/ or /t/. A Course in Phonetics (Ladefodeg & Johnson 2015, 7th ed.) say as much, though their terminology obscures things a bit. They distinguish between taps, which are never retroflex, and flaps, which generally are. They then state that in American English, a (retroflex) flap can be used instead of a (non-retroflex) tap when the /t/ or /d/ is preceded by /ɹ/.

Here's the complete excerpt, from p. 186-187, with the most relevant sentence emboldened:

It is useful to distinguish between taps and flaps. In a tap, the tip of the tongue simply moves up to contact the roof of the mouth in the dental or alveolar region, and then moves back to the floor of the mouth along the same path. In a flap, the tip of the tongue is first curled up and back in a retroflex gesture, and then strikes the roof of the mouth in the post-alveolar region as it returns to its position behind the lower front teeth. The distinction between taps and flaps is thus to some extent bound up with what might be called a distinction in place of articulation. Flaps are typically retroflex articulations, but it is possible to make the articulatory gesture required for a flap at other places of articulation. The tongue can be pulled back and then, as it is flapped forward, made to strike the alveolar ridge or even the teeth, making alveolar or dental flaps. Flaps are distinguished from taps by the direction of the movement—from back to front for flaps, up and down for taps—rather than by the exact point of contact.

Some forms of American English have both taps and flaps. Taps occur as the regular pronunciation of /t, d, n/ in words such as latter, ladder, tanner. The flap occurs in words that have an r-colored vowel in the stressed syllable. In dirty and sorting, speakers who have the tongue bunched or retracted for the r-colored vowel will produce a flap as they move the tongue forward for the non-r-colored vowel.

As far as transcription goes, they say later on the same page that:

An alveolar tap may be symbolized by the special symbol [ɾ], and the post-alveolar (retroflex) flap by [ɽ].

They refer to this again on p. 188:

You should also be able to produce a retroflex flap. As we have seen, many speakers of American English use this type of articulation in sequences such as herding /hɚɽɪŋ/, in which the tongue is curled up and back after the r-colored vowel, and then strikes the back part of the alveolar ridge as it moves down during the consonant.

alphabet
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  • I can't see anywhere where he says that a flap following an r-coloured vowel will be a retroflex flap in English. He does say that flaps are usually retroflex, but I took that to mean cross-linguistically and I took the bit that says ", but it is possible to make the articulatory gesture required for a flap at other places of articulation. The tongue can be pulled back and then, as it is flapped forward, made to strike the alveolar ridge or even the teeth, making alveolar or dental flaps" to be the situation in English. But I'm not at all sureabout that. Is it spelled out somewhere? – Araucaria - Him Nov 08 '23 at 15:38
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    @Araucaria-Him I've added a quote from p. 188, which makes it clear that it is a retroflex flap that occurs in AmE. – alphabet Nov 08 '23 at 15:55
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    Nice. You learn something new every day around here. (Don't know very much re Gen Am. Every little bit helps) – Araucaria - Him Nov 08 '23 at 17:43