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Which is correct? Is it, "Do you want your house painting" or "Do you want your house painted"? Examples of both can be found on the internet.

Is there a difference between them? Can you use either?

Laurel
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michael
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  • @AndrewLeach That's a different issue, and doesn't have an answer for this question. – Laurel Aug 14 '23 at 13:50
  • These are complex catenation patterns. CGEL gives 'I saw them fighting' as an example using the -ing form after the NP; 'I had my car stolen / washed' (different senses!) show examples of the [NP + past participle] type. Here, 'Do you want your house painting?' sounds natural, while 'Do you want your house painted?' sounds slightly dialectal IMO (hence Andrew's suggestion of a duplicate). But nowhere near as dialectal as 'this house needs painted'. //// cf 'I want this finishing/finished by tomorrow'. – Edwin Ashworth Aug 14 '23 at 14:32
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    @EdwinAshworth You really think that "Do you want your house painting?" sounds natural? The exact opposite is true for me. Do you think "the house was painting" is natural? And, given the fact that we're even having this conversation at all, should the question really be closed? This is not related to the other question, since a quick search for "want this work finished/finishing" shows that the version with "finished" is overwhelming preferred. – Laurel Aug 14 '23 at 15:20
  • There are hits in a Google search for "want your house painting" as well as in one for "want your house painted". I've forgotten (if I knew), Laurel ... are you from the States? This could be quite heavily influenced by locality. I feel that the catenation after 'want' (and 'need') [+ NP] using the -ed form is more American in flavour. – Edwin Ashworth Aug 14 '23 at 15:28
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    @Laurel "Do you want the house painting" is perfectly cromulent in BrE. – Araucaria - Him Aug 14 '23 at 15:35
  • I've found this [Basil Cottle; Survey of English Dialects]: " 'I want this finishing by Friday', here assigned only to Yorkshire, is certainly a Geordie trait, too." I'm from Oldham (in Lancashire as was), and it's totally natural to my ears. – Edwin Ashworth Aug 14 '23 at 15:35
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    @EdwinAshworth Yes, I speak an American dialect (specifically one that doesn't include "needs washed", though I'm familiar with the construction). – Laurel Aug 14 '23 at 15:39
  • Perhaps the idiomaticity is dependent on the actual V, NP and V-participle. 'The car needs/needed its oil changing' sounds quite a lot more natural to my ears than 'The car needs/needed its oil changed', while 'I'd like my fence painting/painted white' sound equally natural. – Edwin Ashworth Aug 14 '23 at 15:44
  • For you Brits who hear nothing wrong with "Do you want your house painting", is house there a modifier, like duct in "duct cleaning"? – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 15:52
  • We have a saying in the UK "If you want something doing, do it yourself" – Araucaria - Him Aug 14 '23 at 15:54
  • @TimR No, it isn't. – Araucaria - Him Aug 14 '23 at 15:55
  • @TimR - No. I would interpret Do you want your house painting? as implying 'Do you want someone to paint it?', while the other version is Do you want your house [to be] painted? – Kate Bunting Aug 14 '23 at 15:56
  • I am familiar with 18th c locutions like "the ship is repairing" which in AmE would be paraphrased as "the ship is being repaired", because for us repair is transitive. Do you Brits say "the house is painting"? – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 15:58
  • The AmE counterpart is "If you want something done, do it yourself." – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 16:00
  • @Araucaria-Nothereanymore. CGEL always confuses me when it uses example sentences that work in BrE but not AmE. I've left a bunch of comments on Edwin Ashworth's answer but I can't find a good source on this difference. – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:19
  • I would rephrase it as "Does your house need painting?" – Weather Vane Aug 14 '23 at 21:59
  • @EdwinAshworth I cannot find via Google nor duckduckgo a page where "want the house painting" means "have a desire for the house to receive a new coat of paint." The closest I see is references to a project of painting a house, such as "I want the house painting finished before winter." – phoog Aug 14 '23 at 22:05
  • Both are correct, which is partly why the Question belongs not here, but in SE English Language Learners… – Robbie Goodwin Aug 21 '23 at 20:49

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These are complex catenation patterns. CGEL gives

  • I saw them fighting

as an example using the -ing form after the NP;

  • I had my car stolen / washed                         (different senses of have NP V-ed!)

show examples of the [NP + past participle] type.

So both constructions are considered acceptable by CGEL, but that doesn't mean that they're always equally idiomatic (some might even say grammatical) for all V + NP + V-ing/V-ed complex catenations.

In discussion with others in comments, it becomes clear that idiomaticity is dependent not only on the actual verbs / direct objects involved, but also on region.

Coming from the NW of England, I find

  • The car needs/needed its oil changing                   to be more natural-sounding than
  • The car needs/needed its oil changed.

But I find

  • I'd like my fence painting white                               and
  • I'd like my fence painted white                                 equally natural.

While the -ing form connotes doing, activity, and the -ed form the completed state, it's fair to say the variants are closely synonymous. 'I'd like my fence to be painted white' say (though 'I like my fence painted white' may be either a deleted form of 'I like my fence to be painted white' [iterative] or an object-oriented depictive construction meaning 'I like my fence in this white paint'. Compare 'I like my oysters rare'.

(Obviously the ambiguity as with "Do you really want your son painting?" doesn't arise in this case, but external context will almost always disambiguate.)

And while Basil Cottle, in Survey of English Dialects, writes " 'I want this finishing by Friday', here assigned only to Yorkshire, is certainly a Geordie trait, too", Araucaria (' "Do you want the house painting" is perfectly cromulent in BrE' and 'We have a saying in the UK "If you want something doing, do it yourself" ') states that this is far more general.

On the other hand, Laurel, writing in the United States, says that to her ears,

  • Do you want your house painting?"                        sounds less natural than
  • Do you want your house painted?

I'd say that this is largely, though confusingly not totally, a regional difference, with the past participle preferred consistently in the States, but the present participle often preferred (though not to the exclusion of the past participle) in the UK.

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    This is something that perplexed me reading CGEL recently. To me, "The car needs its oil changing" sounds not just wrong but completely nonsensical. Usually, when my intuitions differ from H&P that much, it's because the construction is valid in BrE but not AmE. But I wasn't able to find any source saying that this is a difference between dialects. – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:03
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    "My house needs painting" sounds fine to me. But "I need my house painting" sounds totally wrong. ("My house wants painting" and "I want my house painting" also sound wrong, but I know that that is a BrE/AmE difference.) – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:05
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    "I want/need my house painted" are both fine, albeit a bit unusual. But "My house needs/wants painted" also sound like nonsense to me. – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:08
  • (H&P have a habit of overlooking AmE/BrE differences, or mentioning them only at the end of a chapter/section. This often leaves me deeply confused, since I spend quite a while wondering why they're using example sentences that sound obviously wrong.) – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:11
  • (I suppose "I want my house painting" would make sense if the house was doing the painting; "I want my employees working hard" sounds alright.) – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 17:18
  • @alphabet: I speak mid-atlanticAmE and don't find anything amiss with "That door wants fixing" or "That shirt needs mending" or "That house needs painting" but like you I wouldn't say "I want my house painting" or "I want my shirt mending" but "painted" and "mended" instead. – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 17:35
  • Edwin, do Brits say "My house is painting" that is to say, "getting painted" or "being painted"? Referring to the ongoing activity? – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 17:39
  • No. Like you, I would consider it archaic. – Kate Bunting Aug 14 '23 at 17:54
  • No, Tim, the ergative isn't available with paint. Contrast 'His old house scrubbed up well', 'this painting cleaned nicely', 'the paint dried quickly'; I'm still working on how to analyse 'she takes a good photograph' (= is photogenic). – Edwin Ashworth Aug 14 '23 at 18:30
  • @EdwinAshworth For you, is "I want my employees cleaning" ambiguous between "I want my employees to clean" and "I want my employees to be cleaned"? – alphabet Aug 14 '23 at 19:46
  • @EdwinAshworth: She cleans up real nice. – TimR Aug 14 '23 at 21:40
  • "Cromulent"? I take it you're a Simpsons fan. – BillJ Aug 15 '23 at 13:15
  • @alphabet If it were not for the fact that 'clean' rarely takes an animate DO, it would be. I'm trying to think of a more suitable example. Perhaps 'I need this chicken eating as soon as possible.' – Edwin Ashworth Aug 15 '23 at 13:32